1. win32 and win98
I continue to have my desktop and other windows displays (i.e. express,
explorer) being corrupted while developing programs using win32 59.1 and EU
2.3. It's a known problem and Derek hasn't been able to fix it because he
doesen't know what's causing it and can't reproduce it. I have to reboot to
fix it about 3 times a day. The problem doesen't corrupt any thing
seriously. A reboot has always returned things to normal.
Anybody else seen this that could give Derek, etal. a hint on where to look?
george
2. Re: win32 and win98
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Jul 31, 2003
On 31 Jul 2003, at 11:32, George Walters wrote:
>
>
> I continue to have my desktop and other windows displays (i.e. express,
> explorer) being corrupted while developing programs using win32 59.1 and EU
> 2.3.
> It's a known problem and Derek hasn't been able to fix it because he doesen't
> know what's causing it and can't reproduce it. I have to reboot to fix it
> about
> 3 times a day. The problem doesen't corrupt any thing seriously. A reboot has
> always returned things to normal.
>
> Anybody else seen this that could give Derek, etal. a hint on where to look?
I wouldn't be too fast to pin the error on win32lib. I have a web miner that
doesn't use win32lib, and the other day i got 3 results running the same
webpage thru the same Eu code.
Kat
3. Re: win32 and win98
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Walters" <gwalters at sc.rr.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: win32 and win98
>
>
> I continue to have my desktop and other windows displays (i.e. express,
> explorer) being corrupted while developing programs using win32 59.1 and EU
> 2.3. It's a known problem and Derek hasn't been able to fix it because he
> doesen't know what's causing it and can't reproduce it. I have to reboot to
> fix it about 3 times a day. The problem doesen't corrupt any thing
> seriously. A reboot has always returned things to normal.
>
> Anybody else seen this that could give Derek, etal. a hint on where to look?
>
Does this happen with apps NOT written with the IDE? Does it happen only when
you launch apps from the IDE? Does it happen when apps crash but not when they
complete normally?
I ask these questions because this is my experience so far.
Win32lib apps that I run that finish normally and are not launched from the IDE
seem to be fine. I'd love an example code that shows otherwise. Its too hard to
debug without being able to easily reproduce the problem.
My gut feel is that when a program crashes, sometimes some system-used fonts are
not restored. Also, I'm not sure that the direct API work in the IDE is not
causing a resource issue.
--
Derek
4. Re: win32 and win98
The programs are mostly launched from Medit (the one written in EU). I'm not
using the IDE of Judith's. The programs are somewhat large, about 20 pages
w/o includes. I can't reproduce it repeatedly. I'm working all day and I
notice it about 3 to 4 times and then only when I check email or do
something different do I notice the corruption. Express flat tool bar can
get dorked as well as MS start > programs. etc. MS explorer has also had
it's tool bar messed up. I will also say that I worked 3 days solid on an XP
laptop w/o a single incident using the identical programs and development
tools..... the apps are crashing and quite frequently as I write and debug.
If you want one of these programs I'll try to package it up and send it with
data and includes....let me know..
thanks
george
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Parnell" <ddparnell at bigpond.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: win32 and win98
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Walters" <gwalters at sc.rr.com>
> To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 1:32 AM
> Subject: win32 and win98
>
>
> > I continue to have my desktop and other windows displays (i.e. express,
> > explorer) being corrupted while developing programs using win32 59.1 and
EU
> > 2.3. It's a known problem and Derek hasn't been able to fix it because
he
> > doesen't know what's causing it and can't reproduce it. I have to reboot
to
> > fix it about 3 times a day. The problem doesen't corrupt any thing
> > seriously. A reboot has always returned things to normal.
> >
> > Anybody else seen this that could give Derek, etal. a hint on where to
look?
> >
>
> Does this happen with apps NOT written with the IDE? Does it happen only
when you launch apps from the IDE? Does it happen when apps crash but not
when they complete normally?
>
> I ask these questions because this is my experience so far.
>
> Win32lib apps that I run that finish normally and are not launched from
the IDE seem to be fine. I'd love an example code that shows otherwise. Its
too hard to debug without being able to easily reproduce the problem.
>
> My gut feel is that when a program crashes, sometimes some system-used
fonts are not restored. Also, I'm not sure that the direct API work in the
IDE is not causing a resource issue.
>
> --
> Derek
>
> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to: gwalters at sc.rr.com
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
5. Re: win32 and win98
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "George Walters" <gwalters at sc.rr.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: win32 and win98
>=20
>=20
> The programs are mostly launched from Medit (the one written in EU). =
I'm not
> using the IDE of Judith's. The programs are somewhat large, about 20 =
pages
> w/o includes. I can't reproduce it repeatedly. I'm working all day and =
I
> notice it about 3 to 4 times and then only when I check email or do
> something different do I notice the corruption. Express flat tool bar =
can
> get dorked as well as MS start > programs. etc. MS explorer has also =
had
> it's tool bar messed up. I will also say that I worked 3 days solid on =
an XP
> laptop w/o a single incident using the identical programs and =
development
> tools..... the apps are crashing and quite frequently as I write and =
debug.
> If you want one of these programs I'll try to package it up and send =
it with
> data and includes....let me know..
>=20
Its the "apps are crashing and quite frequently" that's significant, I =
believe. Because Euphoria doesn't have any crash handler functionality, =
its near impossible (I think) to clean up when the Win32lib app crashes. =
I'll explore using the Windows exception handler stuff to see if I can =
compensate for the absence of this much-needed capability in Euphoria.=20
Also, it could be that XP is more robust in that it does some =
restoration of system fonts when apps crash.
--=20
Derek
6. Re: win32 and win98
I'm running IE 6.0.28.00 however I do use an older version of Outlook
Express (6.0) rather that office 2000 or xp. It is interesting that my
laptop does not have this problem.
george
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonas Temple" <jtemple at yhti.net>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: RE: win32 and win98
>
>
> George,
>
> When you mentioned that MS software is also getting hosed up, that made
> me think, and maybe you've been asked this question before in relation
> to this problem:
>
> - What version of IE do you have installed on your Win98 machine? I
> remember having similar issues (although it's been a while) on Win98 and
> upgraded my IE and they went away. I'm also using Win32lib 59.1 on a
> Win98 machine and have not run into any problems. I'm using IE version
> 5.50.
> - If you're on a recent version of IE and you still have the problems
> then it could be that some other piece of software installed an older
> version of one of the system .dlls. If all else fails...reinstall Win98
> and then try your EU programs before you put anything else on.
>
> HTH,
>
> Jonas
> George Walters wrote:
> >
> >
> > The programs are mostly launched from Medit (the one written in EU). I'm
> > not
> > using the IDE of Judith's. The programs are somewhat large, about 20
> > pages
> > w/o includes. I can't reproduce it repeatedly. I'm working all day and I
> > notice it about 3 to 4 times and then only when I check email or do
> > something different do I notice the corruption. Express flat tool bar
> > can
> > get dorked as well as MS start > programs. etc. MS explorer has also had
> > it's tool bar messed up. I will also say that I worked 3 days solid on
> > an XP
> > laptop w/o a single incident using the identical programs and
> > development
> > tools..... the apps are crashing and quite frequently as I write and
> > debug.
> > If you want one of these programs I'll try to package it up and send it
> > with
> > data and includes....let me know..
> >
> > thanks
> > george
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Derek Parnell" <ddparnell at bigpond.com>
> > To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: win32 and win98
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "George Walters" <gwalters at sc.rr.com>
> > > To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 1:32 AM
> > > Subject: win32 and win98
> > >
> > >
> > > > I continue to have my desktop and other windows displays (i.e.
express,
> > > > explorer) being corrupted while developing programs using win32 59.1
and
> > EU
> > > > 2.3. It's a known problem and Derek hasn't been able to fix it
because
> > he
> > > > doesen't know what's causing it and can't reproduce it. I have to
reboot
> > to
> > > > fix it about 3 times a day. The problem doesen't corrupt any thing
> > > > seriously. A reboot has always returned things to normal.
> > > >
> > > > Anybody else seen this that could give Derek, etal. a hint on where
to
> > look?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Does this happen with apps NOT written with the IDE? Does it happen
only
> > when you launch apps from the IDE? Does it happen when apps crash but
> > not
> > when they complete normally?
> > >
> > > I ask these questions because this is my experience so far.
> > >
> > > Win32lib apps that I run that finish normally and are not launched
from
> > the IDE seem to be fine. I'd love an example code that shows otherwise.
> > Its
> > too hard to debug without being able to easily reproduce the problem.
> > >
> > > My gut feel is that when a program crashes, sometimes some system-used
> > fonts are not restored. Also, I'm not sure that the direct API work in
> > the
> > IDE is not causing a resource issue.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Derek
> > >
> > >
> > > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
> > >
> > >
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
7. Re: win32 and win98
Hello.
I've never run win32lib apps on Windows 98, because I jumped over it. I
know that a few years back, when I was running them on 95, I had no problems
until right before I bought my present computer, when win32lib began peeling
itself away from being compatible with 95. When I bought my computer, it
had Windows ME. Running win32lib applications under Windows ME was quite an
adventure. As Andy said, my fonts would go to some bold version of the
System font when using .57. With .59 versions, the font was stable, but,
again, as Andy said, the small icons in the start menu *and* the system tray
went bezerk. Note that the large icons in the main panel of the start menu
were not affected ... just the small ones. The interesting thing was that
as you moved your mouse over the affected icons, they changed at random; in
fact, I ran a virus scanner a couple of times, because it did look much like
a virus' behavior.
In defense of win32lib, these problems happened in Windows ME on a regular
basis anyway, but win32lib applications seemed to hasten it quite a bit.
And, I've confirmed from a number of people that this problem with ME's
icons happened even on machines which had never run a win32lib application.
Another problem, which might be relevant here, is Windows ME's memory
issues. Win32lib applications in Windows ME, I've noticed, tend to eat a
lot of memory resources, and many times complain about a control's handle
having changed (can't remember the exact message now). This behavior, as
far as I've been able to tell, happens only in Windows ME, which tells me
that it is probably Windows ME's screw up, not Win32lib's.
I have, so far, had *no* problems running win32lib applications in XP. I
imagine that is because Micro$oft transferred the programmers that wrote the
code for ME to something more suited to their abilities, like putting M&Ms
in alphabetical order.
Travis Beaty
Osage, Iowa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Serpa" <ac at onehorseshy.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:07 AM
Subject: RE: win32 and win98
>
>
> I had these problems quite a bit under WinME. I never use any IDE and
> run all the programs directly. Although the problems most frequently
> occur during development -- running the program over & over, possibly
> crashing, etc, it still happens sometimes when I was just using the
> fully-debugged version and no crash occurs. They will occur even when
> using a translated version of the program (.exe). If I'm not mistaken,
> I've seen the problems start to occur (big fonts, etc.) while the
> program is STILL running. My biggest offender was a program that just
> ran perpetually and updated a grid of info (with EuGrid) from the
> internet every few seconds. Often it would only affect an open folder,
> and you could just close it and open it again. Other times it made the
> entire start menu into a total mess. I've never had any problem like
> that except when working with win32lib. The .59x versions seemed
> better-behaved that the .57x, though....
8. Re: win32 and win98
> I had a strange experience on Win2K Pro. I had the IDE running, and was
> working with another program, not written/launched by the IDE, plus my
> wxWindows based editor. At one point, the screen got garbled, and I had to
> reboot. It also messed up the icons in my MS Office shortcut bar. Nothing
> had crashed when this happened. It's not very helpful, I know, but there it
> is. :)
Since I first mentioned it to Derek in January?, I've seen dozens of similar
instances in Win98 on one box, and SE on
another. In a few cases all my desktop icon text was corrupted, then
disappeared, and then the actual desktop icons all
disappeared, one by one. Other open apps have lost entire listviews, icons, and
other child windoze. This 'leak',
whatever it may be, does *not* seem to be restricted to fonts. There's nothing
like an entirely blank left pane in
Explorer to to encourage you! All these symptoms appeared after running a *lot*
of win32lib programs in succession, none
of which crashed.
... again, not very helpful ...
Wolf
9. Re: win32 and win98
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:22:21 +1000, Derek Parnell
<ddparnell at bigpond.com> wrote:
>Also, it could be that XP is more robust in that it does some =
restoration of system fonts when apps crash.
I wonder if a system monitor checking the system font metrics every
second or so would be any help tracking this down?
Pete
10. Re: win32 and win98
On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 09:33:26AM -0500, Travis Beaty wrote:
<snip>
> I have, so far, had *no* problems running win32lib applications in XP. I
> imagine that is because Micro$oft transferred the programmers that wrote the
> code for ME to something more suited to their abilities, like putting M&Ms
> in alphabetical order.
<snip>
LOL
But keep in mind, there is very good reason to believe such limitations were
put into ME deliberately (as are the limitations in the other win9x).
jbrown
--
/"\ ASCII ribbon | http://www.geocities.com/jbrown1050/
\ / campain against | Linux User:190064
X HTML in e-mail and | Linux Machine:84163
/*\ news, and unneeded MIME | http://verify.stanford.edu/evote.html
11. Re: win32 and win98
- Posted by eugtk at yahoo.com
Aug 01, 2003
--- Travis Beaty <tbeaty at osage.net> wrote:
<snip>
> I have, so far, had *no* problems running win32lib
> applications in XP. I
> imagine that is because Micro$oft transferred the
> programmers that wrote the
> code for ME to something more suited to their
> abilities, like putting M&Ms
> in alphabetical order.
Actually, XP was produced by another, more qualified
group:
see http://www.newtechusa.com/PPI/main.asp
Irv
12. Re: win32 and win98
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Getz" <Xaxo at aol.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: RE: win32 and win98
[snip]
>
> The best way to get around this is to track down the functions
> that use shared resources and find out if they are using the
> correct flags. This will probably clear up most of the problems.
>
Sounds fine to me. Two questions though...
** What, specifically, are the shared resources (or how can I recoginize a
shared resource from a non-shared one)?
** Which flags are you referring to? There are SO MANY flags about, I'm not sure
which ones are relevant to this specific issue.
--
Derek
13. Re: win32 and win98
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:56:49 +0000, Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com> wrote:
<snip>
> the lower W versions'=20
What does that mean?
Pete
14. Re: win32 and win98
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Brian Broker" <bkb at cnw.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: RE: win32 and win98
>=20
>=20
> Good grief... the NT/2K/XP line has always been superior to the 9x/ME=20
> line for many reasons (and also a good reason for discontinuing the=20
> latter). However, this is not the proper forum to discuss such =
things.
>=20
> Anyway... how many different distributions of linux are there now? =
How=20
> many compatibility problems exist with different core components of=20
> different distributions of linux (can you even mix and match)? How =
many=20
> desktop environments exist for different distributions of linux? How=20
> many different shells? What is the best combination and overall=20
> hardware compatiblity of an OS with so many flavors and possible=20
> combinations? If I buy new hardware, do I need to compile my own =
driver=20
> or do I just go to linuxupdate.com?
>=20
> Oh wait, this isn't the place for that kind of discussion either.
>=20
> Please, let it rest... I really don't care.
Seeing that Brian doesn't care, we really should end this discussion =
about WIN32LIB and how it behaves differently depending on the version =
of OpSys its running under.
The significant piece of data from all these inputs is that there is =
something wrong with win32lib. I will continue my search for the fix to =
this mistake in the library. All assistance will be welcome.
--=20
Derek
15. Re: win32 and win98
Good grief... the NT/2K/XP line has always been superior to the 9x/ME
line for many reasons (and also a good reason for discontinuing the
latter). However, this is not the proper forum to discuss such things.
Yes. However, this is the proper forum, last time I knew, to discuss
Euphoria libraries such as win32lib.ew, and which platforms it runs and does
not run on. This entire thread began because folks were trying to figure
out where this resource problem occurs. It occurs with Windows 98 and ME,
probably not with 95, and so far not with XP. Using a little bit of
deductive reasoning, we then need to ask the question, "What are the
differences between XP and ME which could account for the system resource
problems?" The answer to that question will help Derek in his search for
the problem.
I have as much a right to state my opinions of Windows ME as you have to
state your opinions about my stating my opinions, and your opinions about
Irv's opionion of my opinion. That is, of course, just my opinion.
Anyway... how many different distributions of linux are there now? How
many compatibility problems exist with different core components of
different distributions of linux (can you even mix and match)? How many
desktop environments exist for different distributions of linux? How
many different shells? What is the best combination and overall
hardware compatiblity of an OS with so many flavors and possible
combinations? If I buy new hardware, do I need to compile my own driver
or do I just go to linuxupdate.com?
Ahem. I don't recall mentioning that I was a die-hard Linux fan. Linux has
just as many problems as Windows: the only difference is that it is another
set of problems. That is why I spent $100 to buy XP. Finding supported
hardware is a pain. Installing new applications can be hell. Ten thousand
different components written by 100,000 people can be a nightmare. None of
this is in dispute. But yes, *that* particular thread is off-topic, because
I'm pretty sure everyone here is convinced that win32lib.ew doesn't run very
well in Linux (with the exception of using Wine, perhaps).
Oh wait, this isn't the place for that kind of discussion either.
Please, let it rest... I really don't care.
-- Brian
Well ... whatever flicks your Bic. I'm not actually too terribly interested
in extolling the virtues of Base-12 -- that's rather old hat for me since
I've known how to do that for a couple dozen years now. But there is
apparently some interest in it, or the thread would not have lasted as long
as it has. I don't think myself high and mighty enough in this community to
dictate to you, Irv, Pete, Derek, Robert, and kat what they can and cannot
discuss. If you aren't interested in this thread, filter it out. If you
don't want to hear from me, filter me out -- hell, I won't known any
different if you do.
I'm sorry, but I've gotten my fill of people crying "off-topic," when it's
none of their damn business whether it is off topic or not, especially
considering that more often than not, the discussion *is* on topic. If
Robert Craig, the owner of this list, feels that a topic is too far off, I'm
sure that he can put an end to it quite easily. That is a decision for him
to make, not us.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I see it (my opinion only here), this
community is not a group of professional programmers trading algorithms with
each other while re-taping the bridge of their glasses. This group is about
a diverse community of amateurs and professionals divining out the
advancement of the Euphoria language, and plotting its course, nudging Mr.
Craig and RDS a little to the left, or a little to the right, as the
community dictates. Discussions of base-12, present and possible future
platforms for Euphoria, AI, gots, etc., are the paper upon which we chart
that course. It's not just you either ... there are a couple of other
people grating my nerves where that is concerned.
Now, as you so aptly stated, let it rest ... we really don't care.
Travis
16. Re: win32 and win98
- Posted by munchr at mac.com
Aug 02, 2003
If anyone has ever wondered about resource limits in windows, check
these MSKB links.
MS Windows 3.1 limits:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;90762
MS Windows 9.x limits:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q190/2/17.ASP
Basically, in Windows 3.x - 9x, there are hard coded limits to
the number of windows, buttons, menus, etc. that can be loaded
into memory. These limits CANNOT be increased. Windows NT
versions are able to dynamically increase these limits as needed
for 32bit programs. (16bit programs still have hard coded limits
for compatability reasons).
For a decent side by side comparison chart of the 3 windows
product families, see:
http://www.windows-help.net/techfiles/win-resources.html
James Powell
At 05:58 AM 02/08/2003, Travis Beaty wrote:
> > Good grief... the NT/2K/XP line has always been superior to the 9x/ME
> > line for many reasons (and also a good reason for discontinuing the
> > latter). However, this is not the proper forum to discuss such things.
>
>Yes. However, this is the proper forum, last time I knew, to discuss
>Euphoria libraries such as win32lib.ew, and which platforms it runs and does
>not run on. This entire thread began because folks were trying to figure
>out where this resource problem occurs. It occurs with Windows 98 and ME,
>probably not with 95, and so far not with XP. Using a little bit of
>deductive reasoning, we then need to ask the question, "What are the
>differences between XP and ME which could account for the system resource
>problems?" The answer to that question will help Derek in his search for
>the problem.
>
>I have as much a right to state my opinions of Windows ME as you have to
>state your opinions about my stating my opinions, and your opinions about
>Irv's opionion of my opinion. That is, of course, just my opinion.
17. Re: win32 and win98
Sorry Brian. My mistake.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Brian Broker" <bkb at cnw.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: RE: win32 and win98
>=20
>=20
> Derek Parnell wrote:
> > Seeing that Brian doesn't care, we really should end this discussion =
> > about=20
> > WIN32LIB and how it behaves differently depending on the version of=20
> > OpSys=20
> > its running under.
>=20
> Travis Beaty wrote:
> > Yes. However, this is the proper forum, last time I knew, to =
discuss
> > Euphoria libraries such as win32lib.ew, and which platforms it runs =
and=20
> > does
> > not run on.=20
>=20
> It's funny how you both deleted what I was responding to.
>=20
> Here, let me put that back in for you:
>=20
> Irv wrote:
> > Actually, XP was produced by another, more qualified=20
> > group:
> > see http://www.newtechusa.com/PPI/main.asp
> >
> > Irv=20
>=20
> Get it now? I'm not blasting the original intent of the thread. =
Don't=20
> remove the context of my comments then give me grief about it.
>=20
> Thanks,
> -- Brian
>=20
> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to: ddparnell at bigpond.com
>=20
>=20
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>=20
>
18. Re: win32 and win98
Hello.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Parnell" <ddparnell at bigpond.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: win32 and win98
>
> Sorry Brian. My mistake.
>
Ditto. I was having a really bad day on top of it, because I found out my
best friend was in a car wreck in Memphis. She shattered two vertebrae in
her back, but miraculously, no nerve damage.
Again, please accept my apologies. 
Travis
