1. Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
i have been thinking alot for the past year or so about writting an
Operating System mainly using Euphoria.
Any Suggestions as far as Structure would be greatly appreciated.
Should the Euphoria OS take on a linux like structure ?
or a Windows Like Structure?
Or even an entirely New structure of its own?
POSIX Compliant?
i have a few ideas but they seem far too complicated
The Euphoria OS must be able to do the following:
-Multitasking/multithreading (without Kernel Panic)
-handle all input/output and devices without the use of a host system
I have done some experimenting, if you use a Dos bootsector and load
a Euphoria interpreter into memory, programs can run independent of Dos or
windows
(MEANING EX.EXE in the place of COMMAND.COM)
let me know what you think?
thank you
2. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
I have thinked the posibility of an "Euphoria Shell" based on euphoria sintax,
Is possible to launch the Freedos kernel and use the shell as replacement for
command.com
Of course not the current ex.exe, must to be a very modified version.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Marco A. Achury
3. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Well this idea has been proposed before. Even I talked about coding a Os in
euphoria. Because euphoria is an interpeted language, it won't be very fast. But
I'm sure there are workarounds this. I've always wanted to do it, but don't have
enough knowledge of it and don't really know where to begin. Anyways, I think
you should go for it. I'll help out.
4. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Marco Achury wrote:
>
>
> I have thinked the posibility of an "Euphoria Shell" based on euphoria sintax,
>
> Is possible to launch the Freedos kernel and use the shell as replacement for
> command.com
>
> Of course not the current ex.exe, must to be a very modified version.
Now this is an interesting idea. Although I'd forget about Freedos. Why
not just make a euphoria shell? It could be a replacement for cmd.exe or
bash or csh, or....
A good place to start might be to take a look at embedded ooeu. There's
a simple interactive demo that might be a decent place to start.
Matt
5. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
iam sure it could be done, if windows 95 could be built as an addon to a
non multitasking operating system, this shouldnt be too impossible.
ive had ideas to prevent crashes, and possibly speeding the system.
like windows 95, to achieve real multitasking the programs each opened
their own instance of Command.com (the interpreter) there could be as many as
instances of command.com running in the background durring startup.
the tasks would communicate though a server which allowed for IPC.
then the virtual machine would be loaded into memory, along with Kernel32.dll
then control was switched over to the 32 bit kernel module.
in a sense this can be done with Euphoria
for instance: ex.exe (ex.exe, ex2.exe, ex3.exe...and so on) to me this seems
like a total waste of resources.
A modification to the interpreter sounds best.
we could modify it, then translate it to C and compile an exe, or elf binary
then the modified interpreter would be a stand alone unit.
annother idea would be to build an interpreter right into the kernel.
iam not sure how that would work.
if you have any ideas i would be glad to hear them.
derek
6. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
thanks for the suggestions, ill definetly be checking out embedded ooeu
7. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
- Posted by derek <dm47021 at comcast.??t>
Nov 10, 2007
-
Last edited Nov 11, 2007
Matt Lewis wrote:
>
> Marco Achury wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have thinked the posibility of an "Euphoria Shell" based on euphoria
> > sintax,
> >
> > Is possible to launch the Freedos kernel and use the shell as replacement
> > for
> > command.com
> >
> > Of course not the current ex.exe, must to be a very modified version.
>
> Now this is an interesting idea. Although I'd forget about Freedos. Why
> not just make a euphoria shell? It could be a replacement for cmd.exe or
> bash or csh, or....
>
> A good place to start might be to take a look at embedded ooeu. There's
> a simple interactive demo that might be a decent place to start.
>
> Matt
i get what you are saying.
but how will that work, because wouldnt the rest of the OS be interepreted
after the shell?
8. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
- Posted by Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.??m>
Nov 10, 2007
-
Last edited Nov 11, 2007
derek wrote:
>
> i have been thinking alot for the past year or so about writting an
> Operating System mainly using Euphoria.
>
> Any Suggestions as far as Structure would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Should the Euphoria OS take on a linux like structure ?
> or a Windows Like Structure?
> Or even an entirely New structure of its own?
>
> POSIX Compliant?
>
> i have a few ideas but they seem far too complicated
>
> The Euphoria OS must be able to do the following:
> -Multitasking/multithreading (without Kernel Panic)
> -handle all input/output and devices without the use of a host system
>
> I have done some experimenting, if you use a Dos bootsector and load
> a Euphoria interpreter into memory, programs can run independent of Dos or
> windows
> (MEANING EX.EXE in the place of COMMAND.COM)
>
> let me know what you think?
> thank you
Hi there,
Whenever i see someone come up with this OS idea i always have to
ask the question, "how do you intend to create drivers for everyones
hardware", if it does not load on top of Windows?
Take care,
Al
E boa sorte com sua programacao Euphoria!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
9. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
- Posted by Matt Lewis <matthewwalkerlewis at g?ai?.com>
Nov 10, 2007
-
Last edited Nov 11, 2007
derek wrote:
>
> Matt Lewis wrote:
> >
> > Now this is an interesting idea. Although I'd forget about Freedos. Why
> > not just make a euphoria shell? It could be a replacement for cmd.exe or
> > bash or csh, or....
> >
>
> i get what you are saying.
> but how will that work, because wouldnt the rest of the OS be interepreted
> after the shell?
A shell is just an interface for doing things on an operating system.
The default shell on windows is cmd.exe. Microsoft has also more recently
released PowerShell, which is integrated with .NET, so that you can use
real .NET objects in shell scripts. The PowerShell is perhaps a better
analogy than cmd:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell
On *nix systems, there are lots of shells. The default on linux is usually
bash (Bourne again shell). There's also zsh, csh, ash, tcsh, ksh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_shell
Matt
10. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Matt Lewis wrote:
> A shell is just an interface for doing things on an operating system.
> The default shell on windows is cmd.exe. Microsoft has also more recently
> released PowerShell, which is integrated with .NET, so that you can use
> real .NET objects in shell scripts. The PowerShell is perhaps a better
> analogy than cmd:
As an aside, I have zsh on my Windows machine. It's often much more convenient
and powerful to use a good command line shell than to muddle through with
Windows. As an example, 'diff', or 'grep'.
--
Craig
Euphoria friendly webhosting: http://www.wazu.jp/hosting/euphoria.html
11. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
derek wrote:
>
> i have been thinking alot for the past year or so about writting an
> Operating System mainly using Euphoria.
There's been some discussion on this, but can I just back up for a moment?
What problem are you trying to solve with a new OS?
--
Craig
Euphoria friendly webhosting: http://www.wazu.jp/hosting/euphoria.html
12. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
I think one problem is that people confuse the idea of an operating system with
the ideas of a user interface or an applications programming interface.
--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
13. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Jason Gade wrote:
>
> I think one problem is that people confuse the idea of an operating system
> with
> the ideas of a user interface or an applications programming interface.
>
> --
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
> system that works.
> --John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.
>
> "Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
> --C.A.R. Hoare
>
> j.
Hello,
Yes, that's all too true. I was asking about the drivers for the
prospective OS because without some subsystem already there you
need drivers for everything. Imagine having to create drivers
for something as simple as the graphics cards/chipsets for everybodies
computer? You'd be on the phone for 10 years and working on code for
the next 40 years 
By then the super computer chips will be out
(ie Intels next biggie).
I think it would be great, no doubt, but the work involved would
take a team of 100 Eu'ers making calls and writing code 16 hours
a day 7.5 days a week
If you force everyone to write their own drivers, hardly anyone
will want to use it.
If you ask me, it might just be a bit too much for us to tackle.
Ride on top of some DOS? Still the good drivers have to be written.
Dont want to force everyone back into 480x640 graphics.
Take care,
Al
E boa sorte com sua programacao Euphoria!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
14. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Craig Welch wrote:
>
> As an aside, I have zsh on my Windows machine. It's often much more convenient
> and powerful to use a good command line shell than to muddle through with
> Windows.
> As an example, 'diff', or 'grep'.
Where'd you get it? One of the first things I install on a windows box
is GnuWin32:
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/
I don't care much for cygwin, but this way I can have the goodness of the
GNU userland stuff in cmd.exe.
Matt
15. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
derek wrote:
>
> i get what you are saying.
> but how will that work, because wouldnt the rest of the OS be interepreted
> after the shell?
Yes the idea is to have a base for better scripts, with a better system of
environtment variables and euphoria sintax. over this a lot of tools
(external commands) of the OS may be replaced with euphoria scripts.
e.g. more, less, sort, choice.
Of course, I'm not talking about a new OS, only about a new Shell, that
run over your usual OS kernel, so we don't need to write drivers for all
the hardware in the earth.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Marco A. Achury
16. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Matt Lewis wrote:
>
> Craig Welch wrote:
> >
> > As an aside, I have zsh on my Windows machine. It's often much more
> > convenient
> > and powerful to use a good command line shell than to muddle through with
> > Windows.
> > As an example, 'diff', or 'grep'.
>
> Where'd you get it? One of the first things I install on a windows box
> is GnuWin32:
http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ -- possibly similar to your command set.
There's a link on that page to zsh.
17. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
Marco Achury wrote:
>
> derek wrote:
> >
> > i get what you are saying.
> > but how will that work, because wouldnt the rest of the OS be interepreted
> > after the shell?
>
> Yes the idea is to have a base for better scripts, with a better system of
> environtment variables and euphoria sintax. over this a lot of tools
> (external commands) of the OS may be replaced with euphoria scripts.
> e.g. more, less, sort, choice.
>
> Of course, I'm not talking about a new OS, only about a new Shell, that
> run over your usual OS kernel, so we don't need to write drivers for all
> the hardware in the earth.
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> Marco A. Achury
I'm not sure, are we talking about shells or OSs?
as far as OSs we have Bill Gates's products and many Linux products.
Whether or not we like them I see no point in trying to re-invent the proverbial
wheel. Seems like a lot of work. I'm lazy.
Don Cole
18. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
That's what I get. It's pretty easy to install.
But I don't tend to use non-native shells under Windows. I should learn zsh
though.
--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
19. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
- Posted by Marco Achury <achury at c?nt?.net>
Nov 12, 2007
-
Last edited Nov 13, 2007
don cole wrote:
>
> I'm not sure, are we talking about shells or OSs?
> as far as OSs we have Bill Gates's products and many Linux products.
> Whether or not we like them I see no point in trying to re-invent the
> proverbial
> wheel. Seems like a lot of work. I'm lazy.
>
> Don Cole
The original message talk about create a new OS.
My proposal is to create a shell
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Marco A. Achury
20. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
- Posted by derek <dm47021 at comcas??net>
Nov 23, 2007
-
Last edited Nov 24, 2007
wouldnt it be possible to build a new OS using the Linux Kernel and alot of
modification, i like your idea of euphoria scripts.
21. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
derek wrote:
> wouldnt it be possible to build a new OS using the Linux Kernel and alot of
> modification,
What do you mean by OS?
Do you mean like Windows, GNU/Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X?
If yes, what would be the purpose?
And do you know what a big job that would be?
Or do you mean something else?
We already have window managers and file managers.
22. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
derek wrote:
>
> wouldnt it be possible to build a new OS using the Linux Kernel and alot of
> modification, i like your idea of euphoria scripts.
Derek, I think there is something you should know.
Over the years, frome time to time, one person or another
will post messages to this list suggesting that Euphoria
should be used to write an operating system - they post
a few messages and then... its the strangest thing, they
vanish. Just like that. Poof! They are gone and we never
hear from them again.
I think Stephen King is researching this phenomena for
his next novel to be called "The Euphoria Operating System Project".
Ken Rhodes
Folding at Home: http://folding.stanford.edu/
100% MicroSoft Free
SuSE Linux 10.0
No AdWare, SpyWare, or Viruses!
Life is Good,
23. Re: Suggestions??? Writting an OS in Euphoria
- Posted by derek <dm47021 at com?ast.n?t>
Nov 25, 2007
-
Last edited Nov 26, 2007
when i say OS, i dont exactly mean like Windows or linux...
just start with something simple, a dos like system, then build off of that.
iam not wanting to do this to make the next best thing, iam just pretty much
doing it to see if it can be done.
first on the agenda is to write a euphoria Compiler system
