1. Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Daniel Berstein <daber at PAIR.COM>
May 12, 1998
-
Last edited May 13, 1998
Ok, I'm not going to talk about Linux or Mac...
I just installed Caldera's DR-DOS and guess what, Euphoria runs quiet and
evenly. JICAC (just in case anybody cares) ;)
DR-DOS is free for non-comercial use, as long as I've seen (20 minutes) it
will be a great succesor of MS-DOS (FYI, Bill anounced it's dead). It has
multitasking capabilities with a task switcher (yes, just like win95). It
has NetWare support so you can just hang from an existing server or create
your own peer-to-peer network. There's even a Web Browser available!
More info: http://www.caldera.com
I had only one problem: ex.exe doesn't likes too much EMM386.EXE, system
crashes when ex.exe exits (himem.sys works OK). Why? Has solution?
BTW It's also cheap if you plan to buy it, ~US$30
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
2. Re: Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
May 13, 1998
-
Last edited May 14, 1998
At 11:48 PM 5/12/98 -0300,Daniel Berstein wrote:
>Ok, I'm not going to talk about Linux or Mac...
>
>I just installed Caldera's DR-DOS and guess what, Euphoria runs quiet and
>evenly. JICAC (just in case anybody cares) ;)
>
>DR-DOS is free for non-comercial use, as long as I've seen (20 minutes) it
>will be a great succesor of MS-DOS (FYI, Bill anounced it's dead).
With DOS dead, and no Eu for Linux, we will need this.
Thanks, Daniel!
>It has
>multitasking capabilities with a task switcher (yes, just like win95). It
>has NetWare support so you can just hang from an existing server or create
>your own peer-to-peer network. There's even a Web Browser available!
>
>More info: http://www.caldera.com
>
>I had only one problem: ex.exe doesn't likes too much EMM386.EXE, system
>crashes when ex.exe exits (himem.sys works OK). Why? Has >solution?
I changed the config.sys file to load the old EMM and HIMEM
from DOS 6.22. It seems to work without the glitch. Are there
other, new glitches? Further testing will tell.
Irv
3. Re: Euphoria new platform
>>
>>I had only one problem: ex.exe doesn't likes too much EMM386.EXE, system
>>crashes when ex.exe exits (himem.sys works OK). Why? Has >solution?
>
>I changed the config.sys file to load the old EMM and HIMEM
>from DOS 6.22. It seems to work without the glitch. Are there
>other, new glitches? Further testing will tell.
I couldn't get it to run at all. At the time I was using:
p-66 eisa server
8 megs ram
etc.
10 meg ibm HUGE hd
100 meg zip drive locked down
scsi card with scsi cd drive
When I loaded caldera dos, No euphoria ran on it, and when I went to
uninstall, it wouldn't. I actually think it ate my zip drive also, not sure
about that though.
I am wondering why, maybe it was because I had all of those drivers
running already, or maybe it was because of the eisa.
Glad to hear it works though, I had given it up months ago. The idea of
having a dos that networks would be cool.
Daniel did you ever get that message re. the ftp.e file?
Monty
4. Re: Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Daniel Berstein <daber at PAIR.COM>
May 13, 1998
-
Last edited May 14, 1998
>>I had only one problem: ex.exe doesn't likes too much EMM386.EXE, system
>>crashes when ex.exe exits (himem.sys works OK). Why? Has >solution?
>
>I changed the config.sys file to load the old EMM and HIMEM
>from DOS 6.22. It seems to work without the glitch. Are there
>other, new glitches? Further testing will tell.
Irv, what's the difference between EMM and HIMEM? It seems (from DR-DOS
setup) that HIMEM is a 286 mem manager while EMM is for 386+... right?
What's for DPMI services? And finally a vocabulary question: what is a
'glitch'? From the context I understand it's an "undocumented feature" ;)
BTW There's another MS-DOS clone over there, it's call FreeDOS (search
altavista for URL). It's free (GNU I think).
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
5. Re: Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
May 13, 1998
-
Last edited May 14, 1998
At 10:33 PM 5/13/98 -0300, Daniel Berstein wrote:
: >what is a 'glitch'? From the context I understand it's an "undocumented
feature" ;)
I'm not sure of the exact meaning of 'glitch' -- someone
on this list will know, I am sure.
I have narrowed the problem down: As long as I run a
purely graphic Euphoria program (my database pgm,
for example) everything works ok. As soon as a Euphoria
program tries to write to stdout, or to a file, you get a
page fault error. Perhaps something to do with non-re-entrant
i/o routines?
Too bad, because DR-DOS has some really handy features!
I'll look at FreeDOS.
Irv
6. Re: Euphoria new platform
>I have narrowed the problem down: As long as I run a
>purely graphic Euphoria program (my database pgm,
>for example) everything works ok. As soon as a Euphoria
>program tries to write to stdout, or to a file, you get a
>page fault error. Perhaps something to do with non-re-entrant
>i/o routines?
Weird! I narrow it to EX.EXE returning to OS. I tried ED.EX and I tested
saving the file. The page fault occurs if you have EMM loaded (instead load
HIMEM.SYS) and happens when the program EXITS.
One "extra" functionality of Euphoria: the install program will tell you if
your machine/OS supports Euphoria automatically! (did you guessed why? the
installation progie is an euphoria program!).
Maybe Rob can investigate a bit. I'm seriusly interested in DR-DOS, seems a
good platform for SOHO non-windows applications (point-of-sales?). DR-DOS is
cheap and network ready.... Rob, I don't think you'll need to
modify/recompile euphoria, just let us now if there're Causeway special
configuirations that resolve the situation.
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
7. Re: Euphoria new platform
From: Daniel Berstein
>what's the difference between EMM and HIMEM? It seems (from DR-DOS
>setup) that HIMEM is a 286 mem manager while EMM is for 386+... right?
>What's for DPMI services?
One of 'em (HIMEM, I think) provides access to 'leftover' memory
between 640k and the end of the first meg of RAM. You can then load DOS
itself and TSRs into that space, using LOADHIGH, DEVICEHIGH, and DOS=HIGH,
UMB in your config.sys, in order to free up conventional memory below the
640k barrier.
The other (EMM386, I think) lets you access memory above 1 Meg via
paging. That's what makes it possible for a program to use 4, 8, or 16 megs
of RAM despite the 640k DOS addressing limit. It's still real-mode though,
I think.
For protected-mode DPMI you need a DOS extender like CauseWay. These
let you access all the memory in the computer directly, instead of flipping
pages back and forth, by using linear addressing instead of segment:offset
addressing.
Of course, some DPMI extenders aren't at all compatible with EMM and/or
HIMEM and programs that use 'em will crash if there's a conflict. CauseWay
seems to work well with 'em though, in my experience.
If ya wanna know all about DOS and DOS alternatives, I'd recommend
DOSREF by Dave Williams.
ftp://ftp.industry.net/pub/sharewar/tools/dosref34.exe It's a comprehensive
shareware programmer's reference guide to DOS.
8. Re: Euphoria new platform
Salutations,
>: >what is a 'glitch'? From the context I understand it's an
"undocumented
>feature" ;)
>
>I'm not sure of the exact meaning of 'glitch' -- someone
>on this list will know, I am sure.
I don't have the dictionary deffinition but I've always used
"glitch" to mean the same as "bug", only, one that isn't necesarily bad.
Example:
Like in a certain 3d racing game if you become airborn over a hill or
ramp, and land on another vehicle, you bounce back up in the air. Here
the physics is wrong (normally you would crush the other vehicle and
maybe slide off), a "bug" but it creates kind of a cool effect so the
programmer left it. Besides it's probably easier to bounce a car than
it is to make it act perfectly realistically.
Possibly a simpler way to state this would be to say that a "glitch" is
a minor error that doesn't really cause any problems.
This definition of a bug may not be correct but it works for me! :)
Sincerely,
Lewis Townsend
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|___________\ || || ||
Keroltarr at hotmail.com
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9. Re: Euphoria new platform
>>what is a 'glitch'? From the context I understand it's an
>>"undocumented feature" ;)
>>
>>I'm not sure of the exact meaning of 'glitch' -- someone
>>on this list will know, I am sure.
>
>I don't have the dictionary deffinition but I've always used
>"glitch" to mean the same as "bug", only, one that isn't necesarily
>bad.
>Example:
>Possibly a simpler way to state this would be to say that a "glitch"
>is a minor error that doesn't really cause any problems.
>
>This definition of a bug may not be correct but it works for me! :)
I think you are right. For example, you hear of "graphic glitches", or,
"graphic corruption bugs". I would think that "graphic glitches" are a
minor form of that. (ie collision detection not working perfectly.) And
nearly anybody who's played "Street Fighter II" knows of the "red
fireball glitch".
The dictionary meaning is something like:
glitch: (slang) A misfunction in machinary
Basically, my best guess is pretty much the same. Something that isn't
too bad, might be nice if it were removed (sometimes), but is tolorable.
Maybe a not too serious bug that still remains a mystery as to why, and
is tolorable.....
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10. Re: Euphoria new platform
Hi Lewis,
MS computer dictionary tells: =
glitch 1. A problem,usually minor.
2. A brief surge in electrical power.
Maybe it tells all ??
regards Karlheinz =
11. Re: Euphoria new platform
At 04:46 PM 5/14/98 -0400, Karlheinz Nester wrote:
>MS computer dictionary tells: =
>
>glitch 1. A problem,usually minor.
> 2. A brief surge in electrical power.
>
>Maybe it tells all ??
I must revise my report. DR-DOS issues a page fault error
when Euphoria ends, with the *strong recommendation* to
reboot to avoid corrupting things. This is more than a glitch.
It will run Euphoria without EMM386, and without task
switching, but you lose the major benefits of using DR-DOS.
The error seems to be the fault of Causeway.
BTW & FWIW: I tried FreeDOS, with very poor results.
It's "not ready for prime time".
Irv
12. Re: Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Daniel Berstein <daber at PAIR.COM>
May 14, 1998
-
Last edited May 15, 1998
>It will run Euphoria without EMM386, and without task
>switching, but you lose the major benefits of using DR-DOS.
>The error seems to be the fault of Causeway.
That's why I asked for Rob's opinion. I hope Causeway may have some optional
flags that resolves the conflict. I suppose Rob is checking the issue and
reading Causeways' documentation.
Has anyone installed Win3.x on DR-DOS? How does it behaves?
Errata: I said DR-DOS was ~US$30, well it's actually US$20! (for commercial
use).
>BTW & FWIW: I tried FreeDOS, with very poor results.
>It's "not ready for prime time".
But I like to see DOS-ish OSes aren't dead yet... in this case growing.
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
13. Re: Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Robert Craig <rds at EMAIL.MSN.COM>
May 14, 1998
-
Last edited May 15, 1998
Daniel Berstein writes:
> That's why I asked for Rob's opinion. I hope
> Causeway may have some optional
> flags that resolves the conflict. I suppose Rob
> is checking the issue and reading Causeways'
> documentation.
There's nothing in the CauseWay documentation
about DR-DOS. I've never tried Euphoria on
DR-DOS and I've never had any feedback from
anyone who has tried it (other than you guys just recently).
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
14. Re: Euphoria new platform
- Posted by Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
May 14, 1998
-
Last edited May 15, 1998
At 09:31 PM 5/14/98 -0300, Daniel Berstein wrote:
>
>Has anyone installed Win3.x on DR-DOS? How does it behaves?
Yes, I ran Win 3.1 for a short time on DR-DOS without any
problems. I couldn't test the networking, however, as I had
no access at the time.
Irv
15. Re: Euphoria new platform
>MS computer dictionary tells: =
when all else fails...^ look it up.
>glitch 1. A problem,usually minor.
> 2. A brief surge in electrical power.
Works for me... Didn't know it was a power surge too, interesting.
Sincerely,
Lewis Townsend
|\ ____ _ _ _ _ __
| \ | __/ || / | // || / __ \
| \ ||_ || //|| // || ||__\|
| \ | _| || // || // || \___ \
| |\ \ ||__ ||// ||// || |\__||
| | \ \|___\ |_/ |_/ || \____/
| | \ \ _____ ________
| | \ \ | __ \ | __ __ |
| | \ \ ||__|| |/ || \|
| | \ \ | __ / ||
| |______\ \ || \\ ||
|___________\ || || ||
Keroltarr at hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
16. Re: Euphoria new platform
>Daniel Berstein writes:
>> That's why I asked for Rob's opinion. I hope
>> Causeway may have some optional
>> flags that resolves the conflict. I suppose Rob
>> is checking the issue and reading Causeways'
>> documentation.
>
>There's nothing in the CauseWay documentation
>about DR-DOS. I've never tried Euphoria on
>DR-DOS and I've never had any feedback from
>anyone who has tried it (other than you guys just recently).
Emm... can you test it personally?
I think it's not a banal question (and not so difficult to answer).
You can also contact Causeway author... maybe he has tested it.
A multitasking-network aware-low hardware requiremet-DOS compatible OS is
quite useful.
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
