1. GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
- Posted by Nate Brooman <nateb at LOG.ON.CA>
Sep 29, 1998
-
Last edited Sep 30, 1998
The GOTO habit that I've developed with QBasic hasn't left me. I find that
it's acually hard for me to code a simple looping program in Euphoria. Must
be me 
I'll work over it.
Now with EuOS:
I am going to begin writing it in a day or so. There is still time to sign
up for the project, but once I begin, you can't join up until V1.2
- Nate
----------
> From: BABOR, JIRI <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ>
> To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject: GoTo or GoAway - Reply
> Date: September 29, 1998 7:20 PM
> Nice try, Ralf, but it will not work. You see, Robert B Pilkingtons
> are the Defenders of the Faith, their universe is neatly divided into
> just two groups: believers and non-believers. And what they call logic
> is their God given right to force their prejudices onto the rest of
> us. Quite boring, because it is always so predictable.
>
> Your block proposal is much more interesting, but unless something
> really escaped me, which happens much too often, it is also completely
> unnecessary. You can already group statements into a procedure, with
> its own scope and variables if you wish. What extra benefits would you
> get from your blocks that cannot be obtained with a simple procedure?
> And similarly, the goto label can be placed, theoretically, anywhere
> at the top level, so what's the difference? jiri
2. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
- Posted by C & K L <candk at TICNET.COM>
Sep 29, 1998
-
Last edited Sep 30, 1998
> Now with EuOS:
>
> I am going to begin writing it in a day or so. There is still time to sign
> up for the project, but once I begin, you can't join up until V1.2
>
> - Nate
Can somebody explain to me why they would want to code a new OS...? You
guys doing it for the fun/experience, or do you have serious aspirations
about it?
OSes already include Win95/98, Unix, Linux, MacOS, BeOS, etc. Again, are
you going to compete or just experience the development?
I think the best things to do these days are OS utilities and games
(which includes graphics libraries, etc.). Of course, I'm thinking
"potential profitability," which most of the time excludes doing stuff
for fun. ;)
I guess since I turned 30 (back on Sept 19th), my whole view of the
world has changed. Yipes! :)
ck
P.S. RALF! - I just ran your gfx demo on my PC at work... It's a
PII-300MHz with 128MB RAM. I got over 240 frames per second! Holy cow!
Blessed bovine! That's pretty good, isn't it? When I turned on the "wait
for refresh," it sure did slow it down a bit. Just thought you'd like to
know and respond. :)
3. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
ck wrote:
>I guess since I turned 30 (back on Sept 19th), my whole view of the
>world has changed. Yipes! :)
It will get much blacker pretty soon, believe me. It's a downhill
journey...
>P.S. RALF! - I just ran your gfx demo on my PC at work... It's a
>PII-300MHz with 128MB RAM. I got over 240 frames per second! Holy cow!
>Blessed bovine! That's pretty good, isn't it? When I turned on the "wait
>for refresh," it sure did slow it down a bit. Just thought you'd like to
>know and respond. :)
Why don't you take it back to whoever sold you the lemon and demand a
refund! On my lowly 233MHz machine I get easily 320+ fps with full
screen parallax scrolling just using Bolin's ememcopy (thanks again,
Mike!).
Just kidding. jiri
4. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
Pretty much for the experience.
- Nate
----------
> From: C & K L <candk at TICNET.COM>
> To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject: Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
> Date: September 29, 1998 10:41 PM
>
> > Now with EuOS:
> >
> > I am going to begin writing it in a day or so. There is still time to
sign
> > up for the project, but once I begin, you can't join up until V1.2
> >
> > - Nate
>
> Can somebody explain to me why they would want to code a new OS...? You
> guys doing it for the fun/experience, or do you have serious aspirations
> about it?
>
> OSes already include Win95/98, Unix, Linux, MacOS, BeOS, etc. Again, are
> you going to compete or just experience the development?
>
> I think the best things to do these days are OS utilities and games
> (which includes graphics libraries, etc.). Of course, I'm thinking
> "potential profitability," which most of the time excludes doing stuff
> for fun. ;)
>
> I guess since I turned 30 (back on Sept 19th), my whole view of the
> world has changed. Yipes! :)
>
> ck
>
> P.S. RALF! - I just ran your gfx demo on my PC at work... It's a
> PII-300MHz with 128MB RAM. I got over 240 frames per second! Holy cow!
> Blessed bovine! That's pretty good, isn't it? When I turned on the "wait
> for refresh," it sure did slow it down a bit. Just thought you'd like to
> know and respond. :)
5. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
- Posted by Monty King <boot_me at GEOCITIES.COM>
Sep 29, 1998
-
Last edited Sep 30, 1998
>P.S. RALF! - I just ran your gfx demo on my PC at work... It's a
>PII-300MHz with 128MB RAM. I got over 240 frames per second!
Jeez I wish I had more Ram, I got 170.053 frames per sec with 75 ball
with my k-6 200mhz with a 4 meg agp card and 32 megs. Of course I am only
running the 66 mhz bus...can't wait for agp2 and a 300 mhz processor with a
100 mhz bus all the way around. Need to boost the ram a bit too.
Ps, about the EUOS, it is rediculous to think that you could sell something
like EUOS, unless it actually had a super efficient file system of its own,
and all sorts of features. It would be cool however to have a multi
threading interpreter, to be able to download a simple text package and have
it perform as Euphoria does would make application downloads much faster.
I have often thought that there should be a non zipped Euphoria archive
out there, that has all of the .e files, and also programs, and then your
interpreter could simply connect to the net anytime it needed the new code,
and download it and run it.
L8tr
Monty
6. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
>>P.S. RALF! - I just ran your gfx demo on my PC at work... It's a
>>PII-300MHz with 128MB RAM. I got over 240 frames per second! Holy cow!
>>Blessed bovine! That's pretty good, isn't it? When I turned on the "wait
>>for refresh," it sure did slow it down a bit. Just thought you'd like to
>>know and respond. :)
>
>Why don't you take it back to whoever sold you the lemon and demand a
>refund! On my lowly 233MHz machine I get easily 320+ fps with full
>screen parallax scrolling just using Bolin's ememcopy (thanks again,
>Mike!).
Although im proud at the user interface that GFX offers the programmer, its
100% Euphoria code.
No machine tricks, etc. Well, yes I do the copying myself, but i dont use
any asm code, other than the wait-retrace. (because I have to have a quick
response on this one) .. but for me, wait-retrace doesnt need to be on.
In some cases it does though.
But indeed ememcopy is off course much faster, esspecially when copying
screens larger than 320 width. And not to mention the completely different
sprite technique used.
If you read the docs about ememcopy carefully, you'll even find command
lists as I suggested back then. My excuses go to Bolin for this. When I
asked him for ASM routines (like this) he nicely wrote them, and I never put
them in real use. But it seems the rest of the world did, when he gave them
out.
BTW, You may want to check Pete's new engine out called Neil. It supports
all Vesa modes, including bit depths upto 32.
Ralf
Ralf
7. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
what's BeOS?
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8. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
what gfx demo?
___________________________
When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above -
matt1278 at juno.com and matt1421 at juno.com(and soon to be
irisnmatt at prodigy.net. Then again, maybe not) Euphoria programmer
Web users: <A HREF=mailto:"matt1421 at juno.com">matt1421 at juno.com</A> or <A
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
9. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
maybe i'll hold off until i gain in knowledge
___________________________
When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above -
matt1278 at juno.com and matt1421 at juno.com(and soon to be
irisnmatt at prodigy.net. Then again, maybe not) Euphoria programmer
Web users: <A HREF=mailto:"matt1421 at juno.com">matt1421 at juno.com</A> or <A
___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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10. Re: GoTo or GoAway & EuOS
- Posted by Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen <nieuwen at XS4ALL.NL>
Sep 30, 1998
-
Last edited Oct 01, 1998
>what gfx demo?
The history of Graphics Libraries in Euphoria:
------------------------------------------------------------
The first real graphics library I've seen, was done by Mark Honnor. It was
not exactly fast or anything, but it did the graphics part itself (for the
first time).
Then Jiri's routines came out (I think it was in that order). They were
pretty fast and clean. Fully tested by Micheal Packard, that produced a
number of semi-"commercial" retro-arcade games with it.
Then, ignorant me, knowing a little of C and saw Denthors famous tutorials
wrote a fake-OO graphics library, supporting all video modes supported
by Euphoria, however it was optimized for Mode 19 (320*200*256 colors) due
to its simple access. It supported RLE encoded sprites, virtual screens of
any size. It handled video mode auto selection, sprites panning, viewports,
sprite movement by angle and direction, sprite management, etc. But its
wasnt fully tested, and the documentation was lousy. I (months later) made a
tutorial once to show the basics, and wrote half of a complete description.
I forgot most juicy details anyways. It was (like Jiri's) 100% Euphoria
code. (except for the wait-retrace.. two lines of ASM that make the screen
update synchronize with your blits to the screen)
It was about all you can get out of pure 100% Euphoria code.. (no inline
machine code) ... except for Jiri's routines, which were fast as well, and
for some sprites much faster than RLE sprites, though I suspect the most of
the sprites will be faster RLE coded.
Back then, I noticed Micheal Bolin knew ASM, due to the fact he used it in
his brilliant keyhandler, and asked him to make a library that did the
transparancy, and gaps (if your virtual screen is larger or smaller than the
real screen) for you and I asked if it could support the command list
design. (something i wanted to use) .. within a week I think, he released
the code (handling command lists!) on the list-server. However, I myself
never used ememcopy to its full use for any engine, but many here did. Look
at the Hayes demo for example..
Then Pete (Eberlein) showed off his knowledge of machine code, and machine
specific programming in general. A mod player, modeX library and now his
Neil engine came out in about a really really short time. Meanwhile Micheal
Bolin, had already updated his ememcopy, to handle banking for the SVGA
modes.
Now, there's still one serieus graphics library not handled here, and thats
the Hollow Horse Engine. A bit forgotten engine maybe, but what Mark Honnor
made it do, was pretty *wow*. That must mean for something, although the
programmer interface was kinda low-level, It was fast though. Simple, and
clean. And esppecially the last version, had all the machine tricks to make
it go fast. Their engine was Mode 19 only. Mark Honnor used it in his great
platform game, that (if you havent seen it) should get to you in some way.
Its the top of creme of all games produced in Euphoria. Not great fun, but
it looked professional, and it was FAST. It used the HHS engine described
here.
Another engine grew together with Hayes, using ememcopy. But Ive kind of
lost track of it. I still remember it unfortunately didnt use command lists,
but maybe I should shut up about command lists ..
And now, the only engine still in development is the Neil engine. It seems
to be able to handle all video modes. Normal, ModeX (he already had those
routines) and Vesa modes. Im unsure if normal modes are optimized as well
though. Pete, could you elaborate on this ? (wow.. I used I new word:
elaborate.. did it fit in the context ?)
And, Robert once dropped he will look into graphics support for Win32.
Something we're still waiting for.
Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen
nieuwen at xs4all.nl
