1. Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by CK Lester <cklester at yahoo.com> Feb 09, 2001
- 474 views
David (Cuny) and Anybody Else with Relevant Experience: Which platform would you develop on FIRST if you knew your program would need to run on all three (Linux, DOS, Windows)? Thanks! ck
2. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by Irv Mullins <irvm at ellijay.com> Feb 09, 2001
- 473 views
On Fri, 09 Feb 2001, you wrote: > David (Cuny) and Anybody Else with Relevant Experience: > > Which platform would you develop on FIRST if you knew your program would > need to run on all three (Linux, DOS, Windows)? Since you mentioned a _heavily_used server, you might just as well start with Linux - preferably on your own network. (An old 486 makes a good server). You'll have a lot more network tools to use under Linux than under Windows, and Linux gives you more control: unlike Windows, it won't require a reboot every time you make a minor programming mistake. Don't even consider DOS. Regards, Irv
3. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by dcuny at LANSET.COM Feb 09, 2001
- 485 views
- Last edited Feb 10, 2001
CK Lester wrote: > Which platform would you develop on > FIRST if you knew your program would > need to run on all three (Linux, DOS, > Windows)? I do almost all my development (including Win32 and Linux) in DOS. I'm more comfortable with the tool set there. But that's not a compelling reason for doing it. -- David Cuny
4. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by Ray Smith <smithr at ix.net.au> Feb 09, 2001
- 472 views
- Last edited Feb 10, 2001
Hi, One option to look at for cross platform development is Free Pascal (www.freepascal.org) using GTK (if you don't like using C or C++ that is ). I have looked a little at GTK using Free Pascal and looks more complex than say Win32Lib but if your dedicated you can produce top quality software. Just look at The Gimp www.gimp.org for what GTK can do. I also believe Gnome uses GTK??? Ray Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: Irv Mullins <irvm at ellijay.com> To: EUforum <EUforum at topica.com> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 1:24 PM Subject: RE: Which Platform to Start? > On Fri, 09 Feb 2001, CK wrote: > > > I'm running Win98/DOS and Linux (Mandrake 7.2 w/KDE2). I'm wanting to start > > with the lowest common denominator... get a basic app running and then port > > to the other platforms (if necessary). I'm interested in working with Linux, > > but I guess if it's easier to use DOS first I'll do that. > > You're developing a client/server app on DOS? Using Netware, or ? > > > Is there a cross platform EU GUI library out there? > > No way. Further problems: simple GUI's for Linux like the GraphApp library > don't offer the features (widgets) you need for general business apps. Neither > does Motif. GTK does, but no one has wrapped the hundreds of calls to Euphoria > yet. > > Your only real options at this point are to: > 1. Write your clients in C using GTK... > 2. Buy a copy of Kylix to do the Linux GUI and a copy of Delphi for the Windows > 3. Design your system to use a browser as the client, That would also > eliminate any "porting" problems to Windows (or Mac/Beos, etc) and would > take advantage of proven - and free - technology (Apache, cgi, browsers). > > The last approach is the one I'm taking right now, in porting a Eu/Windows app > that has been in use for a couple of years into a multi-user networked app. > So far, Euphoria seems to work nicely for the cgi portion of this system. > Eu cgi's are faster than Perl, and easier to understand. > > Regards, > Irv > >
5. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by kinz at peterlink.ru Feb 10, 2001
- 457 views
Dear CK Lester, > need to run on all three (Linux, DOS, Windows)? If I need any machine - a 386 is my choice If I need any platform - DOS is my choice Regards, Igor Kachan kinz at peterlink.ru
6. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by Rolf Schroeder <r.schr at T-ONLINE.DE> Feb 10, 2001
- 468 views
sephiroth _ wrote: > > DOS? 386? Ha! Linux on a Pentium 133! > > kinz at peterlink.ru wrote: > > Dear CK Lester, > > > > > need to run on all three (Linux, DOS, Windows)? > > > > If I need any machine - a 386 is my choice > > If I need any platform - DOS is my choice > > > > Regards, > > Igor Kachan > > kinz at peterlink.ru > > Hi Igor, I know that in St. Petersburg things are not as easy. However, as you stated earlier, Euphoria runs excellent on a 386 DOS platform. I'm not programming for the computer, instead I use Euphoria for solving my little astronomically/physically related things, i.e. momentarily animated GIFs. (Some examples are here: http://home.t-online.de/home/r.schr/Htm/Cntrpot.htm , excuse for the german text, you could try to use 'bablefish' to translate the page in some kind of funny english) May I ask your for your special interests you handle on your 386-DOS machine? Have a nice day, Rolf ps: I had a short look to you russian Euphoria page and translated it via 'bablefish'. Impressive work!
7. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by kinz at peterlink.ru Feb 10, 2001
- 485 views
Hi Rolf, > May I ask your for your special interests > you handle on your 386-DOS machine? I use these machines not because of in Peter things are not easy enough. These machines allow me to see the work of my or other program as under the rapid cinema. I have two linked 386. This is my powerful technology. Ask Ray Smith. Yes, Ray ? (-: ---> If my program work well on a 386 - this is a warranty of a very well work on a more fast machines. And this program is the most available. My special interests relates to comp. modelling of the old technical systems with historical intentions, but this work is not finished. This work requires only non-standard GUI. I'll post some my free stuff to RDS Archives later on. Regards, Igor Kachan kinz at peterlink.ru
8. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by Ray Smith <smithr at ix.net.au> Feb 10, 2001
- 475 views
- Last edited Feb 11, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: <kinz at peterlink.ru> To: EUforum <EUforum at topica.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Which Platform to Start? > These machines allow me to see the work of my > or other program as under the rapid cinema. > I have two linked 386. > This is my powerful technology. > Ask Ray Smith. Yes, Ray ? (-: ---> > If my program work well on a 386 - this is a > warranty of a very well work on a more fast machines. > And this program is the most available. hmmm .... all I can think of is that I mentioned sometime awhile ago that I devloped euAllegro on an old P120 and was happy doing that for performance testing. Is this what you meant Igor???? or have I totally missed something? Ray Smith
9. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by Kat <gertie at PELL.NET> Feb 10, 2001
- 475 views
- Last edited Feb 11, 2001
On 10 Feb 2001, at 16:03, kinz at peterlink.ru wrote: > Hi Rolf, > > > May I ask your for your special interests > > you handle on your 386-DOS machine? > > I use these machines not because of in Peter > things are not easy enough. I know several people on irc in Russia, they do well in technical programming jobs to make $300 a month. and if they have a working 386, they are doing real well. Strangely enough, they make more money than i do here in the usa, by $300, but even i have better puters. I wouldn't sell dos on a 386 short, if you don't need hires graphics manipulated quickly, like Internet Exploder, dos will do anything else: email, web browsing, networking, sound, etc., including lowres mouseable screens at respectable speeds. I was quite happy with my 386DX-40 for years, that was finally the thing that got me away from the C64. I'd guess finding a 486 with a 610meg hd would be rare in most "3rd world" countries, and some "2nd world" ones as well. Didn't someone who was on this list get run off cause he was repeatedly told to buy a better puter on some lil island nation, with $75/month income? Kat
10. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by kinz at peterlink.ru Feb 11, 2001
- 489 views
Hi Ray, > that I devloped euAllegro on an old P120 and was happy doing > that for performance testing. > > Is this what you meant Igor???? or have I totally missed something? Yes and no, Ray. Yes - I am happy to say you - your euAllegro works well enough FOR ME too on my **technological** hardware with 386-25, 33 But no. See PowerBASIC site -- a comparison VB and PB dll compiler. Does it say anything for you ? Do you understand as does this system - Win-95 + DirectX + DCOM + euAllegro + Eu app work to move a sprite ? Is it a ROBUST system ? It like to A-bomb against a little sparrow, I think. So my stable, well tested, familiar, simple choice is 386-387-25DX, 8M RAM, Oak 1M, 850M HD, CD-ROM, VGA Hitachi, SB16, 1.44 FD, 33.6 modem + 386-387-33SX, 4M RAM, Paradise 256K, 1.2 FD, 720 FD, bw VGA Lcd Nokia And I am happy with this very RARE now hardware, because of I know well - *my* programs will run O'k on any your machine and any your platform with Euphoria - if you need *my* programs - he-he-he :-{) I think, billions of people will be happy if they get not expensive modern new machine with my **techological** hardware parametres. I don't need to change my hardware now. O'k ? Regards, Igor Kachan kinz at peterlink.ru
11. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by Ray Smith <smithr at ix.net.au> Feb 12, 2001
- 473 views
----- Original Message ----- From: <kinz at peterlink.ru> To: EUforum <EUforum at topica.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:06 PM Subject: Re: Which Platform to Start? > See PowerBASIC site -- a comparison VB and PB dll compiler. > > Does it say anything for you ? > > Do you understand as does this > system - Win-95 + DirectX + DCOM + euAllegro + Eu app > work to move a sprite ? > > Is it a ROBUST system ? > > It like to A-bomb against a little sparrow, I think. Yes I do understand what you mean. I'm pretty sure you don't need DCOM for Allegro to work - that still leaves a few levels!. I guess the main reason I went the Windows route is that Windows 2000/NT and further MS OS's will not be able to handle DOS based graphics apps. So euAllegro is my "hopefully" long term games development platform. Also the Allegro Linux port is exciting. If Euphoria had better DOS connectivity a DOS version of Euphoria would be possible as well ... that way you could have your cake and eat it to! I'm looking at Free Pascal as a possible solution. Ray Smith One of the reasons
12. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by kinz at peterlink.ru Feb 12, 2001
- 471 views
Hi Ray, > I'm pretty sure you don't need DCOM > for Allegro to work - that still leaves > a few levels!. Yes, but there is Win-95 + DirectX warning without DCOM. > I'm looking at Free Pascal as a possible solution. Remember Ray, Win-95's native hardware platform is 386 + 486. (+ 486!) I have not good but an acceptable **programmig** environment (not for clients naturally and anyway!) with your euAllegro on my 386-WIN. But I have excellent and very comfortable conditions for programming and real execution on my 386-DOS in graphics mode 257, then I just *turn on delays* for a more fast machine or *add* some new features later on. Inspect my simple alph_mic.zip for more detailes. This style is very useful for me -- same as Euphoria's _without "goto"_ a very simple discipline and _without "declare sub"_ a very wise philosophy. I don't _need_ another language and another machine and I don't _want_ another language and another machine for *my* programming tasks (see my mail to Rolf). I love think and understand, not click & drag & drop & (append or prepend) my copyright. I saw Algol, Fortran, PL-1, Pascal, C/C++, Forth, may be almost all Basics ... no, I didn't see True Basic only (?) with matrix operators. The best basic - USSR's BASIC 02 for the Iskra 226 machine (some like WANG 2000) - aborted in 1982 or 84 (?) - 64K with all matrix, trigs, sorts, disk file system, graphics objekts; biltin editor, support plotter, mouse, printer, tape-drive and some more ... hard to remember ... Stop now. Euphoria on a couple 386 was my choice in 1998, is my choice now, and will be my choice, thanks to Euphoria's only more and more high speed, excellent for DOS on a 386, and only more and more high compatibility of the Euphoria's platforms. I program for 386,486,586,686,786,886 >>, not for platform, use "as is", if these *my* *ready* programs are useful. *Your* programs are your's programs. And I am *not* a programmer for *clients* - this point is very important for some Eu users - remember this point, when you and (may be) your clients read these my messages on this subject. My own risk is just zero, if I program now. But my programming practice may be useful for you too, I think. I am not going to tell lies for this list. Regards, Igor Kachan kinz at peterlink.ru
13. Re: Which Platform to Start?
- Posted by kinz at peterlink.ru Feb 13, 2001
- 474 views
Hi Ray, > kinz at peterlink.ru wrote: > > > I have not good but an acceptable **programmig** > > environment (not for clients naturally and anyway!) > > with your euAllegro on my 386-WIN. > > Is the reason poor performance > of euAllegro on a 386 ... > or the hassle of to much other supporting > software required? I had done only very short test to see your moving images. I run DOS session to code any program - with euAllegro or without euAllegro - and this way is very fast and very comfortable with ed.ex editor on my 386 machines. I can run Eu without HD, from 360K floppy, on 386-33sx 4M RAM - works very well in all 4M RAM for DOS32 programming in SVGA mode 257 with 256 colors on VGA Hitachi under simplest DOS. Try VB6 for education in this my simple mode to run Hello World. So, do you understand why I love only Eu now ? I know well, you understand very well, Ray, if you are in this list :) Well, but execution under Win-95 is too slow due to multitasking, I think. Win-95 run another processes. I don't know what to do to *safely* stop or freeze these another system processes for see only the euAllegro pictures now. > Why I choose to go the path I did was for a long term future. > Euphoria DOS32 graphics based apps won't work on WinNT and Win2000? WinNT, Win98 native hardvare is 486. See MS site - you can buy Win95 for 386 native hardvare Win98 for 486 native hardvare and Win2000 for 586+ native hardvare No problem. Then remember how many 386, 486, 586 there are in the World now (at the least only with Win95,98,NT that run DOS O'k). > This is my assumption ... is this correct? > > My theory is ... a lot of people have DirectX and Windows > now and as time goes on more and more people will. > This way by using Allegro (DirectX) this gives me a larger and larger > "possible" user base. > > As you mention your not interested in distributing software ... so > our aims are different and have decided to use different tools. With my couple of 386 + Eu, I can program or teach the kids for that *huge heap* of hardware above. Only my problem is the interesting story, plot, topick, subject for a new programming, not tool. There are a heap of the free tools in The RDS Archives. Take ASM for Eu and try speed of your next game. :) Well, this CK Lester's and our (now) *subject* is documented in Eu 2.2 docs too. RDS's recommendation is DOS. RDS is right, I think and I can say with Eu_Love from Russia. O'k to finish this *subject* for robust programming ? Regards, Igor Kachan kinz at peterlink.ru