1. Scalable DB Solution?
Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
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2. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
On 1 Feb 2001, at 10:18, CK Lester wrote:
> Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
> thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
Any XML/SGML database is scaleable, as far as the database management software
has the ability to read it. I did Tiggr's database in XML format from the start
in 1991,
and i have not regretted it. My getxml() in Eu can read any tags i add, of any
length or
subdivision. But if you are wanting to read existing databases that someone else
wrote, i can't help.
Kat
3. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
Kat,
I'm needing to create a database. It will be huge and consist of multiple
databases. It will be working behind the scenes on an upcoming website, so
that means multiple queries at one time (multi-threaded, right?).
So, XML/SGML are just formatted data files that ANY XML/SGML-enabled
database manager can manage, right? It is also this manager that will serve
the data to the web, correct?
Thanks!
ck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Scalable DB Solution?
> On 1 Feb 2001, at 10:18, CK Lester wrote:
>
> > Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
> > thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
>
> Any XML/SGML database is scaleable, as far as the database management
software
> has the ability to read it. I did Tiggr's database in XML format from the
start in 1991,
> and i have not regretted it. My getxml() in Eu can read any tags i add, of
any length or
> subdivision. But if you are wanting to read existing databases that
someone else
> wrote, i can't help.
>
> Kat
>
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4. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
On 1 Feb 2001, at 10:44, CK Lester wrote:
> Kat,
>
> I'm needing to create a database. It will be huge and consist of multiple
> databases.
The database doesn't care about that. I have one that's 52megs and in some 600
separate files. It is expandable in any dimension. Several of the files have
executeable
code as data, but i can't exec those lines in Eu ,, yet,, but they certainly add
a new
thread of coding to mirc.
>It will be working behind the scenes on an upcoming website, so
> that means multiple queries at one time (multi-threaded, right?).
That's a software program, if you want the software to do that, write it that
way, the
database doesn't care. To do what you want tho, the software does not haveto be
multi
threaded, in fact, i wouldn't for this application, i'd queue the data requests
and run
them one at a time, less overall overhead. In the World Wide Wait, even a few
seconds
of time waiting in the database manager queue isn't a problem, after all, your
puter has
only one cpu anyhow, and on a commercial web host, you are prolly getting only
one
shared cpu too. Tiggr has a serialized front end, multithreaded data
transmission
cause it was easy, but it is essentially serialized going back out thru the
winsock
anyhow, since it's one cpu on one puter, so it could just as well been written
as one
serial "black box" of code. No matter what i do, i haveto wait on winsock, which
seems
to be limited to a bit over a megabit/sec from any one application, which would
be your
web interface frontend software. So do it which ever way is easiest for you and
your
puter's OS (i don't know about *nix on multi-cpu puters).
> So, XML/SGML are just formatted data files that ANY XML/SGML-enabled
> database manager can manage, right?
Prolly not, i'd imagine each proprietary manager uses different tags amd has
different
restrictions and abilities. Your first question was about the database. I can't
tell you
anything about any/every manager out there, but XML tags are the way to go for
the
database itself.
>It is also this manager that will serve
> the data to the web, correct?
That's another software question, nothing to do with the database itself. If you
want it
to interface to the web, that's doable, Tiggr does it, she did it in pascal and
then mirc
first and now in Eu, so anything is possible. If you are trying to build a
custom setup
using bits and pieces from different companies to interface on a commercially
hosted
website, i wish you luck. The database may be scaleable, but i don't know about
any
choice of manager.
Kat,
thinking we are using the words differently here....
> Thanks!
> ck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
> To: <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Scalable DB Solution?
>
>
> > On 1 Feb 2001, at 10:18, CK Lester wrote:
> >
> > > Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
> > > thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
> >
> > Any XML/SGML database is scaleable, as far as the database management
> software
> > has the ability to read it. I did Tiggr's database in XML format from the
> start in 1991,
> > and i have not regretted it. My getxml() in Eu can read any tags i add, of
> any length or
> > subdivision. But if you are wanting to read existing databases that
> someone else
> > wrote, i can't help.
> >
> > Kat
> >
>
>
>
5. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
6. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
Woops!
Sent an empty email :(
Why not use EDS?
You'll ct down on development time, and get more
flexible data store and handling.
If all you need is a CGI prog, this can be done in Eu.
I'd use EDS over some other crap in an instant.
If the file format of the database don't matter, then
EDS is a sure bet.
Mike The Spike
--- Mike The Spike <mtsreborn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
7. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
Kat, can you post a snippet of your database? I'm curious as to the
format... Doesn't seem efficient to me to have a text file with delimiters
as a database format... Show me the light? 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Scalable DB Solution?
> On 1 Feb 2001, at 10:18, CK Lester wrote:
>
> > Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
> > thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
>
> Any XML/SGML database is scaleable, as far as the database management
software
> has the ability to read it. I did Tiggr's database in XML format from the
start in 1991,
> and i have not regretted it. My getxml() in Eu can read any tags i add, of
any length or
> subdivision. But if you are wanting to read existing databases that
someone else
> wrote, i can't help.
>
> Kat
>
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
8. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
- Posted by Kat <gertie at PELL.NET>
Feb 04, 2001
-
Last edited Feb 05, 2001
On 4 Feb 2001, at 18:52, CK Lester wrote:
> Kat, can you post a snippet of your database? I'm curious as to the
> format...
</p><p>
<h1>applicant </h1> <fld01>ap-pli-cant</fld01> <br>
<fld29></fld29> <fld18></fld18><br>
1. <defblk> <fld20>01</fld20> <Syntax>noun,sing</Syntax>
<Semantic>human,htitle</Semantic> <def>a person who applies, as for employment,
help, etc.</def> </defblk><br>
</p><p>
<h1>applications </h1> <fld01>ap-pli-ca-tions</fld01> <br>
<fld29></fld29> <fld18></fld18><br>
1. <defblk> <fld20>01</fld20> <Syntax>plur</Syntax> <Jmp>application</Jmp>
</defblk><br>
applicant
ap-pli-cant
1. 01 noun,sing human,htitle a person who applies, as for employment, help, etc.
applications
ap-pli-ca-tions
1. 01 plur application
The Eu code can be told to find the word within the h1 tags, then subseq each
defblk,
and search within each for syntax, semantics, or any tags i or it wants to add
in the
future. Any added tags won't break anything. Any removed tags won't break
anything.
So Tiggr can add pronunciation tags and specify to the DB manager to go find
them,
and it will, or examples of misuse as they are found, or anything i cannot think
of right
now. Tiggr can likewise spec a tag in a location be removed, and it doesn't
crash the
manager when the tag isn't there.
>Doesn't seem efficient to me to have a text file with delimiters
> as a database format... Show me the light?
I am striving for maximum versatility here, not max speed. If i wanted max
speed, i'd
have fixed length records, and spec the records at compile time, and be unable
to
change them,, and put up with them being the wrong length a vital 1% of the
time. And
not be able to add new fields or delete any. The XML form is in keeping with
Eu's
sequences. They are any length, any depth of subscripting,,, and in my code, i
can
slice them by column too. The tag/tag can contain any tag that's not the name of
the
immeadiate bounding tags. For instance, this won't cause an error: "<h1> <html>
</h1>". It's deceptively simple, like chess.
Kat
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
> To: <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Scalable DB Solution?
>
>
> > On 1 Feb 2001, at 10:18, CK Lester wrote:
> >
> > > Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
> > > thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
> >
> > Any XML/SGML database is scaleable, as far as the database management
> software
> > has the ability to read it. I did Tiggr's database in XML format from the
> start in 1991,
> > and i have not regretted it. My getxml() in Eu can read any tags i add, of
> any length or
> > subdivision. But if you are wanting to read existing databases that
> someone else
> > wrote, i can't help.
> >
> > Kat
> >
>
>
>
9. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
- Posted by CK Lester <cklester at yahoo.com>
Feb 04, 2001
-
Last edited Feb 05, 2001
Kat, as I've been investigating, I've noticed that the
high-end databases are starting to allow the use of
XML. Does that mean they can use an XML database like
yours?
--- Kat <gertie at PELL.NET> wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2001, at 18:52, CK Lester wrote:
>
> > Kat, can you post a snippet of your database? I'm
> curious as to the
> > format...
>
> </p><p>
> <h1>applicant </h1> <fld01>ap-pli-cant</fld01> <br>
>
> <fld29></fld29> <fld18></fld18><br>
> 1. <defblk> <fld20>01</fld20>
> <Syntax>noun,sing</Syntax>
> <Semantic>human,htitle</Semantic> <def>a person who
> applies, as for employment,
> help, etc.</def> </defblk><br>
<snippage occurred>
10. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
- Posted by Kat <gertie at PELL.NET>
Feb 04, 2001
-
Last edited Feb 05, 2001
On 4 Feb 2001, at 19:21, CK Lester wrote:
> Kat, as I've been investigating, I've noticed that the
> high-end databases are starting to allow the use of
> XML. Does that mean they can use an XML database like
> yours?
I don't know, i don't plan on using them. I am happy with mine. One note, in the
early
90's when i began writing the db, i used numbers for the field names, making it
easy
for the puter to pick the next field name to add tags, and making the db pretty
much
unreadable by humans,, so i changed them to something i can read.
In the smaller db that Tiggr accesses with mirc, i have <exec> tags as well,
loading
the contents into a variable, then executing the variable. This tailors the data
read out
to the nick or to the room, based on what else is going on at that time, or thru
programmable timers, at a later time.
Kat
> --- Kat <gertie at PELL.NET> wrote:
> > On 4 Feb 2001, at 18:52, CK Lester wrote:
> >
> > > Kat, can you post a snippet of your database? I'm
> > curious as to the
> > > format...
> >
> > </p><p>
> > <h1>applicant </h1> <fld01>ap-pli-cant</fld01> <br>
> >
> > <fld29></fld29> <fld18></fld18><br>
> > 1. <defblk> <fld20>01</fld20>
> > <Syntax>noun,sing</Syntax>
> > <Semantic>human,htitle</Semantic> <def>a person who
> > applies, as for employment,
> > help, etc.</def> </defblk><br>
>
> <snippage occurred>
>
>
>
11. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
I'd love to use EDS, but this database is going to be huge... millions of
records, all cross related in a billion ways... (Slight exaggerations used
only to impress on the significance of the size and complexity of the data
relationships.)
Format doesn't matter as long as the software can handle
hundreds/thousands/millions of requests each hour/minute/second...
I'm leaning toward investigating DB2, but if Rob or anybody else can help me
understand why EDS would work as well, please speak up!
Thanks,
ck
> Why not use EDS?
> You'll ct down on development time, and get more
> flexible data store and handling.
>
> If all you need is a CGI prog, this can be done in Eu.
>
> I'd use EDS over some other crap in an instant.
>
> If the file format of the database don't matter, then
> EDS is a sure bet.
>
> Mike The Spike
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12. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
I'm running on Win9x, but I'm planning a Linux installation today on my home
PC...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Pishlo" <JimPishlo at home.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: Scalable DB Solution?
> Hi there CK.
>
> Mind if I ask what platform you're running on?
>
>
>
> CK Lester wrote:
> > I'd love to use EDS, but this database is going to be huge... millions
> > of
> > records, all cross related in a billion ways... (Slight exaggerations
> > used
> > only to impress on the significance of the size and complexity of the
> > data
> > relationships.)
> >
> > Format doesn't matter as long as the software can handle
> > hundreds/thousands/millions of requests each hour/minute/second...
> >
> > I'm leaning toward investigating DB2, but if Rob or anybody else can
> > help me
> > understand why EDS would work as well, please speak up!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > ck
> >
> > > Why not use EDS?
> > > You'll ct down on development time, and get more
> > > flexible data store and handling.
> > >
> > > If all you need is a CGI prog, this can be done in Eu.
> > >
> > > I'd use EDS over some other crap in an instant.
> > >
> > > If the file format of the database don't matter, then
> > > EDS is a sure bet.
> > >
> > > Mike The Spike
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Sr. Programmer, Consultant, MCP
> www.SweetSystems.com
>
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13. Re: Scalable DB Solution?
Thanks, Matt! Sounds like a good resource. I'll check it out tonight.
-ck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Lewis" <matthewwalkerlewis at YAHOO.COM>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: Scalable DB Solution?
> You might try buying SQL The Complete Resource. It comes with a CD with
> trial versions of Oracle, DB2, SQL Server and Informix. I think it costs
> around $50 at Borders. Unless you're already a SQL whiz, you'll probably
be
> glad you got the book, too (assuming you're going to be the db admin).
>
> Matt Lewis
>
> > From: CK Lester [mailto:cklester at yahoo.com]
>
> > Anybody have a good website for reviews of large scale databases? I'm
> > thinking Oracle vs. DB2... Personal opinions welcome...
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