1. I got that mail below. Any comments ?
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See the mail below.
I post it, cause it maybe that otehr also got such mails and then
its something to discuss.
Here is my opinion.
Of course I understand everyone's engagement to "make things better".
But that should not lead to some sort of discrimination.
Maybe Some people can "look more far" and though have a better idea
"what could be done". But we should never forget the respect to those who have
already built up something in the past.
I for myself also think that there is maybe more Capacity in Euphoria for a
"mass-market" ... but its not my ship and (honestly) and Craig is the Captain.
I already talked to the Captain, we exchanged the opinions, I accept he has this
opinion that formed Euphoria as that what it is.
I am shure he accepted that there are people with other opinion.
I understand his position and I am happy that he drives the ship so I can do the
things that are necessary for my life.
In the past when I had trouble with Euphoria there was always great support,
from Craig and also from Dave and others so I won't leave the ship even if I
myself would lead it some degrees more "south" 
.
Other opinions about ?
Have fun
-- Theo Gottwald
****************************
http://www.theogott.de
PS: Everett no matter if you are right or not, try to make that package
as you think its fine and then tell me where I can download it.
*********************************************************
Please note that by agreement with Mr. Craig, my comments
are made directly to you and not on the list. I do not
post on the list. You may. however, quote me if you wish.
Herr Gottwald,
The argument is even more basic than that. There are
plenty of free install utilities that would create the
correct directory structure, add the path, make the
associations and possibly even start a basic tutorial
if we had one. Of course, this would make the language
much more approachable by the beginner and the tutorial
could explain the things that the install has done, and
why it has done them.
The install could also build a group and icons for the
interpreter and the tutorial, plus an icon for the most
important thing, an uninstall for those who don't wish
to continue. All of that could easily fit in a megabyte
download. Of course, that would mean that our esteemed
author would have to be a forward looking individual,
really interested in his customers...which he is not.
Without the efforts of a small group of very determined
developers centered around David Cuny, this language
would have disappeared long ago. However, Mr. Craig seems
to have little appreciation for their efforts or
suggestions. Put your hopes in the user group, not the
author.
Everett L.(Rett) Williams
rett at gvtc.com
************************************************************************************
http://www.theogott.de
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name="Gottwald, IT-IS T500, Fa. Compaq, DA.vcf"
2. Re: I got that mail below. Any comments ?
> The argument is even more basic than that. There are
> plenty of free install utilities that would create the
> correct directory structure, add the path, make the
> associations and possibly even start a basic tutorial
> if we had one. Of course, this would make the language
> much more approachable by the beginner and the tutorial
> could explain the things that the install has done, and
> why it has done them.
>
> The install could also build a group and icons for the
> interpreter and the tutorial, plus an icon for the most
> important thing, an uninstall for those who don't wish
> to continue. All of that could easily fit in a megabyte
> download. Of course, that would mean that our esteemed
> author would have to be a forward looking individual,
> really interested in his customers...which he is not.
Oh heck, just give me a plain zipped dir structure, and a way to add that
stuff later, if i want it.
> Without the efforts of a small group of very determined
> developers centered around David Cuny, this language
> would have disappeared long ago.
I haveto agree with this. I may someday use and profit by the gui others
have written, in either dos or windoze, but i never would have written it
myself. I expect that most who download Eu will do so to use the gui
functions on a MS winders platform. I "stand by" my post months ago, it's
only fair that Robert should be helping out David (&Co.) with a few pieces of
needed hardware, after all, it is not possible for Robert to put in as much
programming time to further the language as they do collectively.
Kat
3. Re: I got that mail below. Any comments ?
Theo Gottwald quoted "Mr. Voluntary Banned For Life" 
> There are plenty of free install utilities
> that would create the correct directory structure,
> add the path, make the associations and possibly
> even start a basic tutorial if we had one.
Some time back, since I was testing various installers anyway, I created an
install package for Euphoria using Inno Setup, an excellent freeware package
at:
http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.htm
The result was a larger file that did pretty much the same thing that we
currently have (other than having the ability to set file associations). It
didn't seem to me demonstrably better, although it certainly looked a lot
nicer.
I suppose that when the Win32 IDE is complete, you might be able to shield
the absolute beginner from dealing with the command line and (horrors!)
actually figuring out how to read the documentation.
Until then, I think it's safe to say that programming is fairly complex, and
requires some minimal level of skills. If you can't launch a program from
the command line, it seems to me that perhaps it's a gauge that you're
likely to have even more difficulty with the tasks that follow.
-- David Cuny
4. Re: I got that mail below. Any comments ?
- Posted by chrissy <tubby.toast at NTLWORLD.COM>
Nov 13, 2000
-
Last edited Nov 14, 2000
>Some time back, since I was testing various installers anyway, I created an
>install package for Euphoria using Inno Setup, an excellent freeware
package
>at:
>
> http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.htm
>
>The result was a larger file that did pretty much the same thing that we
>currently have (other than having the ability to set file associations). It
>didn't seem to me demonstrably better, although it certainly looked a lot
>nicer.
I use Inno Setup for all my packages because I can't figure out how to do
windows shortcuts in Euphoria - something which has been often mentioned by
others here in the past. I can do some API wrapping but the Shell Link
interface has me stumped. If anyone comes up with a library for this, they
can certainly have my vote-money thingy for this month.
I thought file associations were just a case of adding a couple of keys to
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT but I've not tried it.
chris.
5. Re: I got that mail below. Any comments ?
Hi,
I had a similar line of thought for a long time, but have come
to change my mind.
Firstly, Euphoria is developed and owned by one person, no one
using Euphoria is forced to use it, and we are very lucky that
a public domain version is available free to use (even if it has
limitations).
I believe the focus of Euphoria should be platform independence,
yes a GUI installer that sets file associations and has an uninstall
option would be very nice but that would make it platform dependant
on windows. Any platform dependant options then make support and
further development more time consuming and more difficult.
Actually it would be nice if Rob did have a mission statement detailing
what the goals of Euphoria are.
My feelings are it would likely focus around a minimal powerful language
that is platform independent.
My comments here really sum everything up nicely: people have different
requirements and uses for Euphoria. Some people would love more Windows/GUI
tools but that would bug others as it drifts off into disjoint ports for
different platforms.
I agree completely with David Cuny, if someone can’t install Euphoria they
are unlikely to be able to use it.
I also agree with your comments as well, a nice installer (and lets throw
in a full featured IDE!!!) would see considerable growth in Euphoria’s
popularity.
If you do want to increase Euphoria’s popularity why don’t you ask Rob
permission to make your own distribution of the PD version with an install
program. Then you might want to look into writing an IDE!!!
Ray Smith
>Herr Gottwald,
>
>The argument is even more basic than that. There are
>plenty of free install utilities that would create the
>correct directory structure, add the path, make the
>associations and possibly even start a basic tutorial
>if we had one. Of course, this would make the language
>much more approachable by the beginner and the tutorial
>could explain the things that the install has done, and
>why it has done them.
>
>The install could also build a group and icons for the
>interpreter and the tutorial, plus an icon for the most
>important thing, an uninstall for those who don't wish
>to continue. All of that could easily fit in a megabyte
>download. Of course, that would mean that our esteemed
>author would have to be a forward looking individual,
>really interested in his customers...which he is not.
>
>Without the efforts of a small group of very determined
>developers centered around David Cuny, this language
>would have disappeared long ago. However, Mr. Craig seems
>to have little appreciation for their efforts or
>suggestions. Put your hopes in the user group, not the
>author.
>
>Everett L.(Rett) Williams
>rett at gvtc.com
>
>***************************************************************************
*********
>http://www.theogott.de
>
>
6. Re: I got that mail below. Any comments ?
In WinNT you can set associations from the command line or from a .bat file:
ASSOC .pl=PerlScript
FTYPE PerlScript=perl.exe %1 %*
(the example is given by HELP FTYPE)
Riwal
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chrissy [SMTP:tubby.toast at NTLWORLD.COM]
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 9:38 PM
> To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject: Re: I got that mail below. Any comments ?
>
> >Some time back, since I was testing various installers anyway, I created
> an
> >install package for Euphoria using Inno Setup, an excellent freeware
> package
> >at:
> >
> > http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.htm
> >
> >The result was a larger file that did pretty much the same thing that we
> >currently have (other than having the ability to set file associations).
> It
> >didn't seem to me demonstrably better, although it certainly looked a lot
> >nicer.
>
>
> I use Inno Setup for all my packages because I can't figure out how to do
> windows shortcuts in Euphoria - something which has been often mentioned
> by
> others here in the past. I can do some API wrapping but the Shell Link
> interface has me stumped. If anyone comes up with a library for this,
> they
> can certainly have my vote-money thingy for this month.
>
> I thought file associations were just a case of adding a couple of keys to
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT but I've not tried it.
>
> chris.
