1. Re: Wishlist IDE * Has anyone an "old VB 4/5 CD" for Judith ?
Theo,
I'm pretty sure Judith wants to know more about VB for essentially two
related reasons:
1. people have asked her to make the IDE more like VB;
2. there is an established VB user base, so if the IDE was like VB then the
IDE would be quicker to learn to use for any who already know VB.
But I don't think she *ever* had any intention or desire to make the *code*
for the IDE work like the *code* for VB, she just wants to emulate the VB
"look & operation", if possible, & if people really want it.
And I'm *very* sure she hasn't asked for people to send her old VB CDs.
Here's what probably *would* help:
make some kind of screen copy of whatever the "main" screen of VB is;
describe what *everything* on that main screen *is*, whether a thing can be
moved, hidden, etc, what they *do*, and what it *looks* like when they are
used (maybe pictures of that too); describe all menu items & options &
pop-ups; tell what *other* windows can be opened, for what purpose, & how,
and what they look like & what controls & menus & options they have; make a
"generalized" but complete description of VB.
And, as she suggested, maybe people who *are* familiar with VB can assist in
coding to make the IDE look & function like VB. Or, perhaps, just make a
DEMO of what VB looks like? Could use the IDE to do that, which could also
derive useful bug reports or additional feature suggestions for her. :)
--------------------------
I'm sure Judith will find the suggestions you've made for the IDE
interesting, & welcome more, but unless I'm wrong, two of your three are
already accomplished:
1. "... the VB-IDE can "reload" a "already saved" File and then you can
change the
"visual controls" ...
--At present, when you save a file as a "project", you can in fact reopen
that project and make changes to the controls, and those changes are
reflected in the produced code;
2. "...So assume there would be an Editor integrated in the IDE..."
--There *is* already a Code Editor in the IDE; in the current version, you
right click in the Design Pad, either on a blank spot in the "window", or on
a control, and select "Code Editor", and a Code Edit window comes up in
which you can select any control you made in the Design Pad, and if you then
select an event from a list, the Editor "builds" the skeleton of the event
handler for that control and that event, for you.
I personally like your general suggestion that ultimately the idea should be
that the programmer should "never leaves the IDE", that all programming
tasks should be able to be accomplished within the IDE.
---------------------------------------------
Here's some things I would think would be desirable in the IDE:
1. some kind(s) of "error" handling ability; so that at least if the error
produced refers to a line number, some kind of reference would be made as to
what procedure has that line in it, so it can be found in the IDE editor;
2. ability to make a window *in* a window, in various "styles";
3. ability to create, work on, & manage "include" files;
4. maybe some ability to view (and alter) the "order" of routines created
by the Code Editor, so that if there is some conflict, their order could be
"re-arranged" to eliminate the conflict.
5. opportunity to "auto paste" the general form of a routine into the
editor, from a list (I've made a variation which does this)
Dan Moyer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gottwald, IT-IS T500, Fa. Compaq, DA" <T.Gottwald at DEUTSCHEPOST.DE>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Wishlist IDE * Has anyone an "old VB 4/5 CD" for Judith ?
> Hi Judith,
>
> I didn't want to say "make it look like VB". Because this seems to be
really a bunch of problems.
> And its not always good to try to copy things.
>
> Example:
> In VB to change the Position of a control, you can write:
>
> "Control1.X = 99"
>
> how should that be "written" in Euphoria ?
>
> Mayb as "Control1[xpos]=99: Rebuilt_Control1()"
>
> The question as I see it is not:
> "How can it be done like in VB ?" but
> "How can it be done more easy or better then in VB ?"
> using the possibilities Euphoria has.
>
> And of course "with less work for Judith" AND urgent
> "in a way to keep compatibility that all Euphorians will REALLY use it".
>
> What do we have from all the incompatible Pre-Prozessors and
Language-enhancements that noone uses at the end ?
>
> The last sentence is urgent. Because there is (I saw it yesterday) a
(name: SPP)
> "Structures-Pre-Processor" for Euphoria by Pete Eberlein. Mayn people
complained about "missing structures here ..."
> but I didn't hear they want to use this pre-processor.
>
> The problem is to integrate things in a way that the amount of using it is
NOT more then the normal amount of using "simple Euphoria".
> A simple "doubt" about if that pre-processor is really "tested and safe"
can be the "I won't use it" for that maybe "great tool".
>
> As the structure-"." is not an Element of the normal Euphorian-Language
the Sytem from VB could only be taken
> if you use a preprozessor on the "original code". Be shure that if you
decide to do so, the needed amount of work increases
> dramatically.
>
> Here are some steps as a begin for a discussion about an "future IDE for
Euphoria".
>
> Let me begin with ...
> Another urgent diffrence to VB (*I really missed*) is, the VB-IDE can
"reload" a "already saved" File and then you can change the
> "visual controls" (delete them, rename them) and VB itself changes the
Code in a way that it makes sense after the changes.
>
> If you would ask me, this is the next feature I would like to see, because
> everyone can use it without pre-processing files and there is a clear,
> possible next step in development of the IDE.
>
> Then as second step: In VB the Program "never leaves the IDE". Will say
...
> In Euphoria you save the Program as ".exw" and you close the IDE and then
you work on the program "as if nothing has been".
> So assume there would be an Editor integrated in the IDE. Then it would be
possible that the IDE has the "control" over the
> code. And the code would "never leave the IDE".
>
> As a third step maybe you could add a feature that "PlugIns" could be
selected and these "PlugIns" (anyone can write or use)
> can use an Interface to access the code in the Editor and the Visual
controls.
> After that Point is done, changes are not more done "in the IDE" but there
were simply "PlugIns" added" to enhance Programming.
>
> So someone can write an "Preprocessor-PlugIn" that could implement another
syntax-features e.g. structures.
> In this case I think its urgent to save the "Source-code" (before
pre-processed) as well as the "processing-rules")
> in the same file as a "REMarked" ( using -- ) part.
> As the "processed" file is saved after the pre-processing its a for
everyone usable euphoria-file
> AND you could load it back into the IDE and the IDE shows you the included
source-code you could work on.
>
> But these things are a little bit difficult and I wouldn't try to go
there to early cause
> I am not shure if most people would accept to use regularly a third
preprocessor in their "BIND.BAT" 
.
>
> I think after the "code stays in the IDE" and there is a working Interface
for "third party-PlugIns" there could be a
> faster development speed on these things.
>
> Comments on this ?
>
> **********************************************************
> Here a necessary last word: Thanks for your work, Judith !
> **********************************************************
>
> -- Theo Gottwald
>
> PS: Doesn't have anyone an old VB (4 or 5 ?) CD left to sent it to Judith
so she can test the "real VB" ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judith Evans [mailto:camping at FLASH.NET]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Wishlist IDE
>
>
> Ok, I'm taking in ideas for the next look of the IDE.
>
> Please, everyone, don't just say: make it look and act like VB. I don't
know
> VB, don't have access to it and can't download a big file anyway because
our
> ISP is stuck about 26,000 and times out.
>
> I've gotten a few jpeg files sent to me and they help me understand how
the
> VB looks, but doesn't explain how it functions. I've gotten some basic
ideas
> from the pics, but it doesn't really answer all my questions.
>
> So, I probably need specific instructions OR somebody added to the IDE
> effort that can do that part.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Judith
>
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:50:28 +0100, Gottwald, IT-IS T500, Fa. Compaq, DA
> <T.Gottwald at DEUTSCHEPOST.DE> wrote:
>
> >I just needed to change the title to Wishlist IDE. Maybe someday the
right
> person reads it ...
> >Maybe we need an better IDE now and the structures later ...
