1. ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by Jeremy Peterson <ptl99 at hotmail.com>
Jan 10, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 11, 2006
I've been looking for a library that could handle most of my needs in one
package. I looked at the ESL project, but they don't seem to have any code, just
documentation. When(if ever), is it going to be released?
Jeremy(frustrated because of the lack of a general purpose, easy to use library)
Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do
nothing."
2. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by Bernie Ryan <xotron at bluefrog.com>
Jan 10, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 11, 2006
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> I've been looking for a library that could handle most of my needs in one
> package.
> I looked at the ESL project, but they don't seem to have any code, just
> documentation.
> When(if ever), is it going to be released?
>
> Jeremy(frustrated because of the lack of a general purpose, easy to use
> library)
>
Jeremy:
What exact need do you have for a library, there maybe
a library that already exists in the archive or
one that somebody is working on.
I don't think you will find a single library that contains
everything that you will ever need.
Bernie
My files in archive:
w32engin.ew mixedlib.e eu_engin.e win32eru.exw
Can be downloaded here:
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=bernie+ryan
3. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by Jeremy Peterson <ptl99 at hotmail.com>
Jan 10, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 11, 2006
I know there won't be one that contains everything, thats why I said general
purpose. I mean basic stuff, like string routines, math routines, file routines,
io routines. Stuff like the ESL project is about. They seem to be going the way
of the OpenEU group, leaving no recourse but for me to do it myself.
Jeremy
Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do
nothing."
4. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by Bernie Ryan <xotron at bluefrog.com>
Jan 10, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 11, 2006
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> I know there won't be one that contains everything, thats why I said general
> purpose. I mean basic stuff, like string routines, math routines, file
> routines,
> io routines. Stuff like the ESL project is about. They seem to be going the
> way of the OpenEU group, leaving no recourse but for me to do it myself.
>
Jeremy:
search the archive for "string" you will find many string handling
libraries including my mixedlib that supports "C" strings and
structures.
search the archive for "math" you will find about 30 libraries.
search the archive for "file" you will find many libraries that deal with
files.
Bernie
My files in archive:
w32engin.ew mixedlib.e eu_engin.e win32eru.exw
Can be downloaded here:
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=bernie+ryan
5. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by Jeremy Peterson <ptl99 at hotmail.com>
Jan 10, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 11, 2006
That's kind of my point, Bernie. There isn't a library that puts those 3
together in one simple, easy to use package. You have to search all over in the
archives. The ESL project was supposed to do this, but so far its just seems to
be talk.
Jeremy
Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do
nothing."
6. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
Jan 10, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 11, 2006
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> I know there won't be one that contains everything, thats why I said general
> purpose. I mean basic stuff, like string routines, math routines, file
> routines,
> io routines. Stuff like the ESL project is about. They seem to be going the
> way of the OpenEU group, leaving no recourse but for me to do it myself.
>
> Jeremy
>
> Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to
> do nothing."
Hi there Jeremy and others,
If you're looking for math routines i dont think you'll find anything
more powerful than the Math Library i've submitted for the archives.
It does lots of things even with complex numbers, and even has a
built in numerical solver. There's a fairly decent doc file too so
it shouldnt be hard to learn how to make the function calls,
and there is also an extensive demo.
Come to think of it, i meant to update that thing soon anyway...
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
7. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
Hi
Looking at the work done by D. Newhall et al, it seems that most of the
functions proposed in the ESL already exist scattered across the libraries in the
archives. I bet most of us have our own ESL already. win32lib has its own ESL too
(w32_tk - toolkit - functions)
The ESL (official) version fromn the files that I have seen has more comment
than code, and unfortunately has probably become stifled by all its rules and
standards. (critisism NOT intended)
I therefore have a new proposal. I will host the new ESL, but I won't write a
single piece of code for it. Everyone who wants it can forward their favourite
function to me (or as many as you want), and I will incorporate it into the
standard library.
Copy / cut / paste / plaguerise (with credits please) to your hearts content.
Minimum comments (no standards required). Document (if you want), but they will
be moved to a separate file.
In order to try to avoid namespace clashes, all type, function and procedure
names to be prefixed by 'esl_' - if you don't do it I will.
Constants capitalised, no prefix - TRUE will be 1, FALSE will be 0 (no
discussion)
No discussion about it here (too much clutter) - take it to uboard.
Your function will either be added or not - no discussion, this is a
dictatorship ( 
)
The library will be total and utter freeware, gpl'd etc etc.
I will update the library, release small increments frequently, to the RDS
archive
Remember the more functions people contribute, the quicker the library will
grow.
ema il your fuctions to me at crylex @ gmail dot com
Derek - if you object to this, I will stop straight away, I don't want to imply
any critisism at all, or stand on anyones toes.
Any takers?
Chris
http://members.aol.com/chriscrylex/euphoria.htm
http://uboard.proboards32.com/
http://members.aol.com/chriscrylex/EUSQLite/eusql.html
8. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
- Posted by D. Newhall <derek_newhall at yahoo.com>
Jan 11, 2006
-
Last edited Jan 12, 2006
(In reply to Chris Burch)
Chris, feel free to do this if you want, all I ask is not to use ESL or the name
Euphoria Standard Library.
The point behind the ESL (and it's biggest fault so far) is that anyone can
propose stuff and we'd agree on everything as a group. I'm sure if Chris Cuvier
(the other person who's really into this) or I did it with our word as law we'd
be done by now but we wanted to allow the community to contribute with
everything. Sadly, this has caused much delay along with Real Life getting in the
way occasionally.
You have the freedom to do this if you want. However, honestly, I'd prefer you
didn't since we hope to get everything started full throttle soon (we mean it
this time!) and we were hoping to have everything unified, standardized, and full
documented. I think lack of uniformity would be the biggest issue. Our naming
conventions were made to fit with Euphoria's current scheme whereas with your
method you could get stuff like "esl_iGetKey" and then have
"esl_process_keystroke" in the same file which could throw off many users.
The Euphoria Standard Library project :
http://esl.sourceforge.net/
The Euphoria Standard Library mailing list :
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/esl-discussion
9. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
Hi
NP - its stopped - look forward to the full throttle results
This is a really valuable addition to the eu armory - destifle and produce!
Chris
http://members.aol.com/chriscrylex/euphoria.htm
http://uboard.proboards32.com/
http://members.aol.com/chriscrylex/EUSQLite/eusql.html
10. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
> Subject: Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
>
>
> posted by: D. Newhall <derek_newhall at yahoo.com>
>
> (In reply to Chris Burch)
>
> Chris, feel free to do this if you want, all I ask is not to
> use ESL or the name Euphoria Standard Library.
>
> The point behind the ESL (and it's biggest fault so far) is
> that anyone can propose stuff and we'd agree on everything as
> a group. I'm sure if Chris Cuvier (the other person who's
> really into this) or I did it with our word as law we'd be
> done by now but we wanted to allow the community to
> contribute with everything. Sadly, this has caused much delay
> along with Real Life getting in the way occasionally.
>
> You have the freedom to do this if you want. However,
> honestly, I'd prefer you didn't since we hope to get
> everything started full throttle soon (we mean it this time!)
> and we were hoping to have everything unified, standardized,
> and full documented. I think lack of uniformity would be the
> biggest issue. Our naming conventions were made to fit with
> Euphoria's current scheme whereas with your method you could
> get stuff like "esl_iGetKey" and then have
> "esl_process_keystroke" in the same file which could throw
> off many users.
>
>
> The Euphoria Standard Library project :
> http://esl.sourceforge.net/
> The Euphoria Standard Library mailing list :
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/esl-discussion
>
In addition, never forget that testing and properly documenting any project
take more time
than actual coding. Hence the temptation to cut on the former, which
invariably proves
horribly costly a few months later when trying to debug or upgrade.
The less people work on the library, the longer it will take to be released,
and the lower the maximal expectations about quality (extensivity of
testing, quality of internal and external documentation, presence and
quality of end user documentation, not mentioning the actual contents of the
package). Because people involved may not be professionals and may not have
full days to spend on the project.
Any joiners?
CChris
11. Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
Cuvier Christian wrote:
>
> > Subject: Re: ESL, will it ever get anywhere?
> >
> >
> > posted by: D. Newhall <derek_newhall at yahoo.com>
> >
> > (In reply to Chris Burch)
> >
> > Chris, feel free to do this if you want, all I ask is not to
> > use ESL or the name Euphoria Standard Library.
> >
> > The point behind the ESL (and it's biggest fault so far) is
> > that anyone can propose stuff and we'd agree on everything as
> > a group. I'm sure if Chris Cuvier (the other person who's
> > really into this) or I did it with our word as law we'd be
> > done by now but we wanted to allow the community to
> > contribute with everything. Sadly, this has caused much delay
> > along with Real Life getting in the way occasionally.
> >
> > You have the freedom to do this if you want. However,
> > honestly, I'd prefer you didn't since we hope to get
> > everything started full throttle soon (we mean it this time!)
> > and we were hoping to have everything unified, standardized,
> > and full documented. I think lack of uniformity would be the
> > biggest issue. Our naming conventions were made to fit with
> > Euphoria's current scheme whereas with your method you could
> > get stuff like "esl_iGetKey" and then have
> > "esl_process_keystroke" in the same file which could throw
> > off many users.
> >
> >
> > The Euphoria Standard Library project :
> > <a href="http://esl.sourceforge.net/">http://esl.sourceforge.net/</a>
> > The Euphoria Standard Library mailing list :
> > <a
> > href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/esl-discussion">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/esl-discussion</a>
> >
>
> In addition, never forget that testing and properly documenting any project
> take more time
> than actual coding. Hence the temptation to cut on the former, which
> invariably proves
> horribly costly a few months later when trying to debug or upgrade.
>
> The less people work on the library, the longer it will take to be released,
> and the lower the maximal expectations about quality (extensivity of
> testing, quality of internal and external documentation, presence and
> quality of end user documentation, not mentioning the actual contents of the
> package). Because people involved may not be professionals and may not have
> full days to spend on the project.
>
> Any joiners?
>
> CChris
>
>
Hi
Sure, I'll put my money where my mouth is - email me with some tasks.
Chris
