1. OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Feb 03, 2006
-
Last edited Feb 04, 2006
Jason Gade wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > don cole wrote:
> > >
> > > How about a wrapper converting Win32lib and winClass programs to wxWindows
> > > programs.
> > >
> > >
> > > He He...
> > >
> > > Don Cole
> >
> > Hi there Don,
> >
> > Interesting idea, although at the moment i have no real need for
> > a cross platform lib because i only use Windows. I meant to get
> > around to installing a Linux distro but never seemed to get to
> > it for some reason. I tried a 'live' Linux and it was pretty cool,
> > but got tired of having to set everything up all over again when i
> > would boot up.
> >
> > Perhaps i should try again with a full Lin version and try to make
> > at least the WinClass Lib cross platform. I wonder what it would
> > take to make a lib that depends on the usual Windows dll's work
> > on Linux too...
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> > My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
> I haven't done it myself, but some live distros such as Knoppix allow you to
> save settings to your HD or to a thumb drive.
I feel compelled again to mention CoLinux, the "Cooperative Linux" which runs
under Windows (2000/XP only). I have CoLinux on this machine acting as my
firewall
(slightly dubious, but effective enough :) and at work our two main servers
(samba and exim4) run on the same machine under Win2k pro (you need Speed for
this, ours is 3.4GHz HT P4e) and have worked flawlessly for almost 8 months
now, backup is a breeze--shutdown the servers, copy the root fs images, restart
the servers.
The only caveat I have is if you use the cofs driver (for local filesystem
access) back up your root filesystem image _regularly_. The cofs driver
has a nasty habit of occasionally totally scrambling the root image
Before this happened to me, sans backup :) I had a good Gnome desktop
environment
setup which I could VNC into, thus develop Euphoria apps.
www.colinux.org relatively easy to install, but big download for the
Debian fs image. 5/5 nifty stars :) Excellent Wiki too.
Gary
2. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
ags wrote:
>
> Jason Gade wrote:
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> > >
> > > don cole wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How about a wrapper converting Win32lib and winClass programs to
> > > > wxWindows
> programs.</font></i>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He He...
> > > >
> > > > Don Cole
> > >
> > > Hi there Don,
> > >
> > > Interesting idea, although at the moment i have no real need for
> > > a cross platform lib because i only use Windows. I meant to get
> > > around to installing a Linux distro but never seemed to get to
> > > it for some reason. I tried a 'live' Linux and it was pretty cool,
> > > but got tired of having to set everything up all over again when i
> > > would boot up.
> > >
> > > Perhaps i should try again with a full Lin version and try to make
> > > at least the WinClass Lib cross platform. I wonder what it would
> > > take to make a lib that depends on the usual Windows dll's work
> > > on Linux too...
> > >
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > >
> > > My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
> >
> > I haven't done it myself, but some live distros such as Knoppix allow you to
> > save settings to your HD or to a thumb drive.
>
> I feel compelled again to mention CoLinux, the "Cooperative Linux" which runs
> under Windows (2000/XP only). I have CoLinux on this machine acting as my
> firewall
> (slightly dubious, but effective enough :) and at work our two main servers
> (samba and exim4) run on the same machine under Win2k pro (you need Speed for
> this, ours is 3.4GHz HT P4e) and have worked flawlessly for almost 8 months
> now, backup is a breeze--shutdown the servers, copy the root fs images,
> restart
> the servers.
>
> The only caveat I have is if you use the cofs driver (for local filesystem
> access) back up your root filesystem image _regularly_. The cofs driver
> has a nasty habit of occasionally totally scrambling the root image
>
> Before this happened to me, sans backup :) I had a good Gnome desktop
> environment
> setup which I could VNC into, thus develop Euphoria apps.
>
> www.colinux.org relatively easy to install, but big download for the
> Debian fs image. 5/5 nifty stars :) Excellent Wiki too.
>
> Gary
Hi Gary,
I hate to say this but,
"The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
totally scrambling the root image"
doesnt sound like a very good argument for using 'CoLin'
I could see the sales writeup now...
"We have the perfect system that does everything you've ever
wanted an op system to do... Just make sure you back up your
root drive in case it gets scrambled and you have to refresh it
from backups!!"
Currently my root drive is around 20 gigs, and i wouldnt want to
have to refresh it from CD's if something screwed up with the driver.
It would take more than 30 CD's to back that thing up for one, and
imagine how long it would take to refresh?
I could use my personal virus program, but currently that takes
some two hours to reinstall stuff. I wouldnt want to have to do
that either.
Maybe the people who make that software could fix that problem?
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
3. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
Al Getz wrote:
>
> ags wrote:
> >
> >
> > The only caveat I have is if you use the cofs driver (for local filesystem
> > access) back up your root filesystem image _regularly_. The cofs driver
> > has a nasty habit of occasionally totally scrambling the root image
> >
>
> I hate to say this but,
> "The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
> totally scrambling the root image"
> doesnt sound like a very good argument for using 'CoLin'
>
> I could see the sales writeup now...
> "We have the perfect system that does everything you've ever
> wanted an op system to do... Just make sure you back up your
> root drive in case it gets scrambled and you have to refresh it
> from backups!!"
>
> Currently my root drive is around 20 gigs, and i wouldnt want to
> have to refresh it from CD's if something screwed up with the driver.
> It would take more than 30 CD's to back that thing up for one, and
> imagine how long it would take to refresh?
I think that you might be misunderstanding Gary. The Linux filesystem is
stored in a big file on your windows machine. To coLinux, it looks like
a big ext3 partition (or whatever file system you set up). I don't think
I use coLinux as extensively as Gary, but I haven't had any filesystem
problems (just problems created by an inexperienced Linux admin).
Personally, I think it's a better solution than dual booting if you don't
plan to use Linux too much on that machine.
Matt Lewis
4. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
Matt Lewis wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > ags wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The only caveat I have is if you use the cofs driver (for local filesystem
> > > access) back up your root filesystem image _regularly_. The cofs driver
> > > has a nasty habit of occasionally totally scrambling the root image
> > >
> >
> > I hate to say this but,
> > "The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
> > totally scrambling the root image"
> > doesnt sound like a very good argument for using 'CoLin'
> >
> > I could see the sales writeup now...
> > "We have the perfect system that does everything you've ever
> > wanted an op system to do... Just make sure you back up your
> > root drive in case it gets scrambled and you have to refresh it
> > from backups!!"
> >
> > Currently my root drive is around 20 gigs, and i wouldnt want to
> > have to refresh it from CD's if something screwed up with the driver.
> > It would take more than 30 CD's to back that thing up for one, and
> > imagine how long it would take to refresh?
>
> I think that you might be misunderstanding Gary. The Linux filesystem is
> stored in a big file on your windows machine. To coLinux, it looks like
> a big ext3 partition (or whatever file system you set up). I don't think
> I use coLinux as extensively as Gary, but I haven't had any filesystem
> problems (just problems created by an inexperienced Linux admin).
>
> Personally, I think it's a better solution than dual booting if you don't
> plan to use Linux too much on that machine.
>
> Matt Lewis
Hi,
What is there to misunderstand?
"The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
totally scrambling the root image"
That can't be good, can it?
But still, if i did misunderstand something then i need to know
what it is that's really happening with this problem before i
would want to install 'CoLinux'. Somebody tell me :)
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
5. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Feb 06, 2006
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I hate to say this but,
> "The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
> totally scrambling the root image"
> doesnt sound like a very good argument for using 'CoLin'
Hey, just putting it out there.
>
> I could see the sales writeup now...
> "We have the perfect system that does everything you've ever
> wanted an op system to do... Just make sure you back up your
> root drive in case it gets scrambled and you have to refresh it
> from backups!!"
I wish more commerical vendors did this
> Currently my root drive is around 20 gigs, and i wouldnt want to
> have to refresh it from CD's if something screwed up with the driver.
> It would take more than 30 CD's to back that thing up for one, and
> imagine how long it would take to refresh?
The point with coLinux is that you would have say a 4Gb (or even a
128Mb) root file system image hosted by Windows which your _concurrently
running_ Linux system uses to do its thing. (as well as a swap file image)
Backing up 4Gb is one DVD, and I only use 1Gb for a router/firewall/web
server/mysql/ssh/etc so just copy it from one hard drive to another.
If you want to replace your whole system with Linux then yeah, get a boxed
set and dual boot or whatever... I use coLinux to do those things Windows
won't let you do without forking out $$$ while still firing up Internet
Explorer (which I like now), and playing Jagged Alliance 2 etc etc
> Maybe the people who make that software could fix that problem?
I think I saw something on one of their mailing lists about a fix being made
for it. Unfortunately with coLinux their 'release' versions are updated
very infrequently. All the fixed are in CVS snapshots etc.
So you can see, I'm not trying to sell this program, merely point out its
existence
Gary
6. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Feb 06, 2006
Matt Lewis wrote:
>> I think that you might be misunderstanding Gary. The Linux filesystem is
> stored in a big file on your windows machine. To coLinux, it looks like
> a big ext3 partition (or whatever file system you set up). I don't think
> I use coLinux as extensively as Gary, but I haven't had any filesystem
> problems (just problems created by an inexperienced Linux admin).
To be fair, this has only happened to my twice. Both times were from
making a folder on a cofs mount (which is a known bug). This actually
reboots your computer _instantly_ in certain circumstances, so the file
corruption could come from anywhere (disk cache, windows file system etc).
Gary
7. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Feb 06, 2006
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> What is there to misunderstand?
> "The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
> totally scrambling the root image"
> That can't be good, can it?
>
> But still, if i did misunderstand something then i need to know
> what it is that's really happening with this problem before i
> would want to install 'CoLinux'. Somebody tell me :)
Perhaps I should also say that there is actually no need to use the 'cofs'
feature. I definitely don't use it on my production systems. It is a system
where instead of mounting a hard drive or cd rom or ram disk in the Linux
system you are mounting a part of the windows file system.
It's a quick way to copy files to and from Windows or Linux, but could be
achieved just as easily (and saferly) with samba windows file sharing or FTP.
Gary
8. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
ags wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > What is there to misunderstand?
> > "The cofs driver has a nasty habit of occasionally
> > totally scrambling the root image"
> > That can't be good, can it?
> >
> > But still, if i did misunderstand something then i need to know
> > what it is that's really happening with this problem before i
> > would want to install 'CoLinux'. Somebody tell me :)
>
> Perhaps I should also say that there is actually no need to use the 'cofs'
> feature. I definitely don't use it on my production systems. It is a system
> where instead of mounting a hard drive or cd rom or ram disk in the Linux
> system you are mounting a part of the windows file system.
>
> It's a quick way to copy files to and from Windows or Linux, but could be
> achieved just as easily (and saferly) with samba windows file sharing or FTP.
>
> Gary
Hi again Gary,
Perhaps you can tell me what exactly gets corrupted when this problem
occurs? Matt had suggested that maybe the problem isnt as bad as it
sounds so maybe you can explain what happens. Does the whole drive
get corrupted (ie the 'fat' record) or just *part* of the drive, or
just one file that Linux uses, or what, (exactly) ?
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
9. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Feb 06, 2006
-
Last edited Feb 07, 2006
Al Getz wrote:
> Perhaps you can tell me what exactly gets corrupted when this problem
> occurs? Matt had suggested that maybe the problem isnt as bad as it
> sounds so maybe you can explain what happens. Does the whole drive
> get corrupted (ie the 'fat' record) or just *part* of the drive, or
> just one file that Linux uses, or what, (exactly) ?
Hi Al
It is just the file that (co)Linux uses. As to how exactly it gets corrupted,
I used the word "scrambled" because even e2fsck can't repair it, and I have
seen e2fsck repair some badly corrupted drives due to power failures.
So yes, it is a file that gets 'corrupted' (in the sense that its contents are
no longer a valid file system image).
eg:
Say coLinux is in C:\colinux, then colinux-daemon uses it's XML configuration
file to load C:\colinux\root_fs as its drive to boot from.
ie
<block_device index="0" path="\DosDevices\c:\coLinux\root_fs" enabled="true" />
It's that C:\colinux\root_fs file that gets corrupted. No big loss, unless
you _don't_ have a backup of it AND it more than likely won't happen if
you stay away from the cofs driver in the release versions :)
Anyway, I'm sure there are colinux forums somewhere.
Oooh, they released another stable version yesterday (6th Feb)
"Lots of bug fixes"
Gary
10. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
Feb 06, 2006
-
Last edited Feb 07, 2006
ags wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> > Perhaps you can tell me what exactly gets corrupted when this problem
> > occurs? Matt had suggested that maybe the problem isnt as bad as it
> > sounds so maybe you can explain what happens. Does the whole drive
> > get corrupted (ie the 'fat' record) or just *part* of the drive, or
> > just one file that Linux uses, or what, (exactly) ?
>
> Hi Al
>
> It is just the file that (co)Linux uses. As to how exactly it gets corrupted,
> I used the word "scrambled" because even e2fsck can't repair it, and I have
> seen e2fsck repair some badly corrupted drives due to power failures.
>
> So yes, it is a file that gets 'corrupted' (in the sense that its contents are
> no longer a valid file system image).
>
> eg:
> Say coLinux is in C:\colinux, then colinux-daemon uses it's XML configuration
> file to load C:\colinux\root_fs as its drive to boot from.
>
> ie
> <block_device index="0" path="\DosDevices\c:\coLinux\root_fs" enabled="true"
> />
>
> It's that C:\colinux\root_fs file that gets corrupted. No big loss, unless
> you _don't_ have a backup of it AND it more than likely won't happen
> if
> you stay away from the cofs driver in the release versions :)
>
> Anyway, I'm sure there are colinux forums somewhere.
>
> Oooh, they released another stable version yesterday (6th Feb)
> "Lots of bug fixes"
>
> Gary
Hi again Gary,
Thanks for the info and this does sound interesting.
Im not asking this stuff just to be able to 'have' Linux, per se,
but to be able to have a Linux system in which to program Euphoria
stuff of course
So i guess what you are saying is that the file system that Linux uses
would possibly get corrupted, so that wouldnt affect my Windows installation
then would it? In other words, if that problem did occur, i would still
be able to boot to Windows and use it as i always did without refreshing
any part of the hard drive, right?
I guess then if i wanted to continue to use Linux i would have to
refresh that file, right? Or reinstall something?
I'd like to try some more Euphoria programming on Linux but of
course i have to have some sort of Linux installation first, so
this sounds like a candidate.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
11. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by Vincent <darkvincentdude at yahoo.com>
Feb 06, 2006
-
Last edited Feb 07, 2006
Al Getz wrote:
>
> ags wrote:
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> > > Perhaps you can tell me what exactly gets corrupted when this problem
> > > occurs? Matt had suggested that maybe the problem isnt as bad as it
> > > sounds so maybe you can explain what happens. Does the whole drive
> > > get corrupted (ie the 'fat' record) or just *part* of the drive, or
> > > just one file that Linux uses, or what, (exactly) ?
> >
> > Hi Al
> >
> > It is just the file that (co)Linux uses. As to how exactly it gets
> > corrupted,
> > I used the word "scrambled" because even e2fsck can't repair it, and I have
> > seen e2fsck repair some badly corrupted drives due to power failures.
> >
> > So yes, it is a file that gets 'corrupted' (in the sense that its contents
> > are
> > no longer a valid file system image).
> >
> > eg:
> > Say coLinux is in C:\colinux, then colinux-daemon uses it's XML
> > configuration
> > file to load C:\colinux\root_fs as its drive to boot from.
> >
> > ie
> > <block_device index="0" path="\DosDevices\c:\coLinux\root_fs" enabled="true"
> > />
> >
> > It's that C:\colinux\root_fs file that gets corrupted. No big loss, unless
> > you _don't_ have a backup of it AND it more than likely won't happen
> > if
> > you stay away from the cofs driver in the release versions :)
> >
> > Anyway, I'm sure there are colinux forums somewhere.
> >
> > Oooh, they released another stable version yesterday (6th Feb)
> > "Lots of bug fixes"
> >
> > Gary
>
> Hi again Gary,
>
>
> Thanks for the info and this does sound interesting.
> Im not asking this stuff just to be able to 'have' Linux, per se,
> but to be able to have a Linux system in which to program Euphoria
> stuff of course
>
> So i guess what you are saying is that the file system that Linux uses
> would possibly get corrupted, so that wouldnt affect my Windows installation
> then would it? In other words, if that problem did occur, i would still
> be able to boot to Windows and use it as i always did without refreshing
> any part of the hard drive, right?
> I guess then if i wanted to continue to use Linux i would have to
> refresh that file, right? Or reinstall something?
>
> I'd like to try some more Euphoria programming on Linux but of
> course i have to have some sort of Linux installation first, so
> this sounds like a candidate.
>
>
> Al
>
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
I've been using Damn Small Linux for a few weeks now. It is pretty neat I think.
A 50 MB download and your done, then you can use wget and get all sorts of
software to increase functionability. It's based on the 2.4 Linux kernel and runs
Linux Euphoria great. I like loading it into RAM as it greatly improves
performance.
Regards,
Vincent
12. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Feb 06, 2006
-
Last edited Feb 07, 2006
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info and this does sound interesting.
> Im not asking this stuff just to be able to 'have' Linux, per se,
> but to be able to have a Linux system in which to program Euphoria
> stuff of course
Of course
> So i guess what you are saying is that the file system that Linux uses
> would possibly get corrupted, so that wouldnt affect my Windows installation
> then would it? In other words, if that problem did occur, i would still
> be able to boot to Windows and use it as i always did without refreshing
> any part of the hard drive, right?
That's right.
> I guess then if i wanted to continue to use Linux i would have to
> refresh that file, right? Or reinstall something?
Yep. Just that file.
> I'd like to try some more Euphoria programming on Linux but of
> course i have to have some sort of Linux installation first, so
> this sounds like a candidate.
Definitely. For programming you would probably have to have an X Windows
setup going. I find it best to VNC to the X system rather than have an
X client running on top of windows (far too many levels of emulation going
on there IMHO).
Of course there are other drawbacks to an 'emulated' linux environment (though
it's not strictly an emulation, it's the real thing with a few bits cut off).
Namely if you are interested in doing stuff with direct hardware access then
you might run into trouble like not being able to access the hardware you
want. In general, if Windows is using it, coLinux can't (eg Video Memory,
serial ports, etc). But you can access whole disks if they are disabled in
Windows. Try having a look through the Wiki for FAQs etc. wiki.colinux.org
Gary
13. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:24:46 -0800, Vincent <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
wrote:
>I've been using Damn Small Linux for a few weeks now. It is pretty
>neat I think. A 50 MB download and your done, then you can use wget
>and get all sorts of software to increase functionability. It's based
>on the 2.4 Linux kernel and runs Linux Euphoria great.
Reminds me, a couple of weeks ago I downloaded one of them 1 floppy
linux distros (text only, natch), and tried to install it on my (very)
old machine, which only has a 1G disk. I managed to clear 200MB
(c'mon, that's 20%!) but boy was it not enough!
>I like loading it into RAM as it greatly improves performance.
LOL! Don't worry about me, I'm from the stone age.
Pete
14. Re: OT: CoLinux revisited (was Re: Idea List: #0002)
Pete Lomax wrote:
>Reminds me, a couple of weeks ago I downloaded one of them 1
>floppy linux distros (text only, natch), and tried to install it
>on my (very) old machine, which only has a 1G disk. I managed to
>clear 200MB (c'mon, that's 20%!) but boy was it not enough!
ZipSlack
ZipSlack is a special edition of Slackware Linux that can be
installed onto any FAT (or FAT32) filesystem with about 100 MB of
free space. It uses the UMSDOS filesystem and contains most of
the programs you will need. This means that you do not need to
repartition your hard disk if you already have DOS or Windows
installed. ZipSlack installs into a directory on your DOS
filesystem. It can also be installed to and booted from a Zip
disk.
This distribution is ideal for people who don't have a lot of
hard disk space, do not have a fast Internet connection to
download the entire distribution, or who want a Linux
distribution they can carry around on a Zip disk.
http://www.slackware.com/zipslack/
