1. RE: missing posts???
- Posted by irv at take.maxleft.com
Jun 01, 2002
C. K. Lester wrote:
> > Many people on this list hate Microsoft.
>
> I just want to say that I do NOT hate Microsoft. I just wish they would
> be
> destroyed by a giant meteor. But I don't hate 'em.
Well, it looks like you're officially the only one.
See http://www.satirewire.com/news/0008/satire-microsofthated.shtml
Irv
2. RE: missing posts???
jbrown105 at speedymail.org wrote:
[snip]
> Actually, if we go this route, we may want several mailing lists: one
> for discussing Win32Lib, one for low-level Win32 API programming, one
> for Linux/FreeBSD low-level programing, one for bugs fixes/ideas for
> enhancements in Euphoria, and one general list for everything else
> (including helping newbies figure out which list to post to!).
>
> Also, I'd personally like the following mailing lists despite the
> fact that they are less relevant to Euphoria programming in general
> applications: oen for preprocessors of Euphoria (development,
> comparision,
> general discussion, etc.), one for modified interpreters, and one for
> discussion of multi-platform GUI and IDE.
I agree with the concept but maybe not the number of lists.
I would prefer something like:
* An announcement list of new software/libraries/versions etc.
You would expect no more than a dozen emails per week.
* A Beginners list - all the "simple" how to questions
This is so new users aren't intimidated by dozens of emails daily.
* An Advanced list - I would assume most discussion occuring here.
This is for the hard core users!
Ray Smith
http://rays-web.com
3. RE: missing posts???
It like that idea.
But what experienced programmers are going to be reading the beginners
list?
I think it would be better to have a win32, and a general list, and an
annoucement list.
People should also be asked if they want to subscribe to the mailing
list when installing eu. Alot of people just don't understand how to use
eu, and are intimidated by a mailing list. They might be more
interested when they discover that they can use the list to figure out
how to use eu. Maybe even offer some kind of incentive for people to
join the list.
Chris
Ray Smith wrote:
>
> jbrown105 at speedymail.org wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Actually, if we go this route, we may want several mailing lists: one
> > for discussing Win32Lib, one for low-level Win32 API programming, one
> > for Linux/FreeBSD low-level programing, one for bugs fixes/ideas for
> > enhancements in Euphoria, and one general list for everything else
> > (including helping newbies figure out which list to post to!).
> >
> > Also, I'd personally like the following mailing lists despite the
> > fact that they are less relevant to Euphoria programming in general
> > applications: oen for preprocessors of Euphoria (development,
> > comparision,
> > general discussion, etc.), one for modified interpreters, and one for
> > discussion of multi-platform GUI and IDE.
>
> I agree with the concept but maybe not the number of lists.
>
> I would prefer something like:
>
> * An announcement list of new software/libraries/versions etc.
> You would expect no more than a dozen emails per week.
>
> * A Beginners list - all the "simple" how to questions
> This is so new users aren't intimidated by dozens of emails daily.
>
> * An Advanced list - I would assume most discussion occuring here.
> This is for the hard core users!
>
> Ray Smith
> http://rays-web.com
>
>
>
4. RE: missing posts???
Chris Bensler wrote:
> But what experienced programmers are going to be reading the beginners
> list?
I would :)
... I'd think that most people who currently answer newbie questions
would subscribe as well ????
I'd think that most serious eu programmers would subscribe to all 3.
In effect there won't be any more emails in totol ... it will be the
same as now ... just from 3 different lists.
Ray Smith
http://rays-web.com
5. RE: missing posts???
- Posted by a.tammer at hetnet.nl
May 31, 2002
He you guys,
Beginnerslist would have my attention too. I'm as much of a=
newbie on Euphoria IE as whoever stumbled over it and looked=
better.
antoine
6. RE: missing posts???
Hi Juergen,
jluethje at gmx.de wrote:
> I personally would *not* like to have several mailing lists instead of
> one.
I propose 3.
> I agree: it will be the same as now ... just from 3 different lists.
> So, where will be the advantage? 
There are two advatages that I see to splitting the list as I proposed:
1. An announce list will keep everyone up to date on current
developments within Euphoria. I'm sure there are many Euphoria users
who don't have the time or enegry to sift through dozens of emails
daily to read the few interesting weekly announcements.
2. New users are very intimidated by the high number, in depth and
often complex emails that are sent through the list. The aim is to
keep these types of emails in an advanced list and keep a newbie list
more accessible with lower traffic.
> But if we have e.g. 3 lists, we probably will have threefold technical
> problems and threefold mails complaining about them, threefold ads from
> the list hosting companies, additional questions from newcomers like
> "Hi, what is the proper list to ask the following question ..." and such
> things.
I would hope the 3 lists are all from the one list server.
I don't see how we would end up recieving more adds??
In nearly all cases any technical problems will effect all 3 lists.
I don't see much confusion about which list to post questions to.
If you have just started using Euphoria or have a simple question
use the newbie list. If you have been using Euphoria for a reasonable
amount of time and start asking more complex questions it isn't
difficult to suggest that person join the advanced list.
> I'd prefer something else:
> We could define several areas, such as "General", "Win32Lib",
> "Internet",
> "Annoucments" etc., and then add the appropriate name to the subject of
> our mail, maybe enclosed in [ ].
We actually discussed this exact standard about a year ago I think ...
and it lasted less than a week. At the time I was all for it ... and
the only reason I think it didn't work is because people are lazy!
(I put myself deep into this category!).
It's a good idea but in practice it fails.
With the number and complexity of emails on the current list I
believe the time has come for the list to be split.
Do any of the list ops have stats on the number of people you join the
list and leave within a short period of time???
I have no idea ... all I know is some comments have been made about
the exact points I have described.
As for list servers ... Topica is as good and bad as any others I have
seen. I have no problems with having 3 lists here.
Regards,
Ray Smith
http://rays-web.com
7. RE: missing posts???
The problem with [tag] prefixes to the subject line is not laziness, but
remebering and/or knowing to do it. I for one tried, for about a week.
And managed to remeber only a few times, and the idea was fresh in my
head then. I also particapated in that discussion and had an interest in
the idea, so was more enthusiastic about it than someone who has just
joined the list.
Every person on the list would have to be trained to use that system.
And it would be a constant battle telling new members to uses the
prefixes.
Though it was a good idea in theory, it didn't work at all.
The only problem with multiple lists is the added confusion it will
bring for new users.
I think the ONLY solution is for RDS to get it's own server for a
mailing list. Have the mailing list running from eu, of course.
I don't understand why you can't do this rob, your pc is already
handling every email that passes through the list by way of moderation.
You could eliminate Topica altogether, AND strip a step out of the
mailing list process.
I guess what would be needed for that is a list server written in eu,
and a webbased based client
I'm sure people wopuld be willing to do the dirty work, if R
Chris
Ray Smith wrote:
> Hi Juergen,
>
> jluethje at gmx.de wrote:
> > I personally would *not* like to have several mailing lists instead of
> > one.
>
> I propose 3.
>
> > I agree: it will be the same as now ... just from 3 different lists.
> > So, where will be the advantage?
>
> There are two advatages that I see to splitting the list as I proposed:
>
> 1. An announce list will keep everyone up to date on current
> developments within Euphoria. I'm sure there are many Euphoria users
> who don't have the time or enegry to sift through dozens of emails
> daily to read the few interesting weekly announcements.
>
> 2. New users are very intimidated by the high number, in depth and
> often complex emails that are sent through the list. The aim is to
> keep these types of emails in an advanced list and keep a newbie list
> more accessible with lower traffic.
>
> > But if we have e.g. 3 lists, we probably will have threefold technical
> > problems and threefold mails complaining about them, threefold ads from
> > the list hosting companies, additional questions from newcomers like
> > "Hi, what is the proper list to ask the following question ..." and such
> > things.
>
> I would hope the 3 lists are all from the one list server.
> I don't see how we would end up recieving more adds??
> In nearly all cases any technical problems will effect all 3 lists.
>
> I don't see much confusion about which list to post questions to.
> If you have just started using Euphoria or have a simple question
> use the newbie list. If you have been using Euphoria for a reasonable
> amount of time and start asking more complex questions it isn't
> difficult to suggest that person join the advanced list.
>
> > I'd prefer something else:
> > We could define several areas, such as "General", "Win32Lib",
> > "Internet",
> > "Annoucments" etc., and then add the appropriate name to the subject of
> > our mail, maybe enclosed in [ ].
>
> We actually discussed this exact standard about a year ago I think ...
> and it lasted less than a week. At the time I was all for it ... and
> the only reason I think it didn't work is because people are lazy!
> (I put myself deep into this category!).
> It's a good idea but in practice it fails.
>
> With the number and complexity of emails on the current list I
> believe the time has come for the list to be split.
>
> Do any of the list ops have stats on the number of people you join the
> list and leave within a short period of time???
> I have no idea ... all I know is some comments have been made about
> the exact points I have described.
>
> As for list servers ... Topica is as good and bad as any others I have
> seen. I have no problems with having 3 lists here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Smith
> http://rays-web.com
>
>
>
8. RE: missing posts???
Oops, pressed enter too soon :P
I'm sure people would be willing to do the dirty work of writing the
apps that would be needed, if Rob is willing to go along with the idea.
As far as I understand, there would be hardly any extra cpu overhead,
and bandwidth usage would be pretty much the same.
It would eliminate the topica ads, maintenance shutdowns, and general
annoyances. Not to mention stop everyone from bickering about it
already!
I like the idea of 3 lists, like Ray suggested. But I wouldn't subscribe
to 3 separate lists if they weren't all hosted from the same place. I
would prolly want to be subscribed to all 3, but could see myself
ignoring the novice list very easily. Also, I don't want the hassle of
maintaining 3 subscriptions. If I can have one subscription that works
for all 3 lists, then that would be ok.
Mainly, I think more lists just means more confusion.
Chris
Ray Smith wrote:
> Hi Juergen,
>
> jluethje at gmx.de wrote:
> > I personally would *not* like to have several mailing lists instead of
> > one.
>
> I propose 3.
>
> > I agree: it will be the same as now ... just from 3 different lists.
> > So, where will be the advantage?
>
> There are two advatages that I see to splitting the list as I proposed:
>
> 1. An announce list will keep everyone up to date on current
> developments within Euphoria. I'm sure there are many Euphoria users
> who don't have the time or enegry to sift through dozens of emails
> daily to read the few interesting weekly announcements.
>
> 2. New users are very intimidated by the high number, in depth and
> often complex emails that are sent through the list. The aim is to
> keep these types of emails in an advanced list and keep a newbie list
> more accessible with lower traffic.
>
> > But if we have e.g. 3 lists, we probably will have threefold technical
> > problems and threefold mails complaining about them, threefold ads from
> > the list hosting companies, additional questions from newcomers like
> > "Hi, what is the proper list to ask the following question ..." and such
> > things.
>
> I would hope the 3 lists are all from the one list server.
> I don't see how we would end up recieving more adds??
> In nearly all cases any technical problems will effect all 3 lists.
>
> I don't see much confusion about which list to post questions to.
> If you have just started using Euphoria or have a simple question
> use the newbie list. If you have been using Euphoria for a reasonable
> amount of time and start asking more complex questions it isn't
> difficult to suggest that person join the advanced list.
>
> > I'd prefer something else:
> > We could define several areas, such as "General", "Win32Lib",
> > "Internet",
> > "Annoucments" etc., and then add the appropriate name to the subject of
> > our mail, maybe enclosed in [ ].
>
> We actually discussed this exact standard about a year ago I think ...
> and it lasted less than a week. At the time I was all for it ... and
> the only reason I think it didn't work is because people are lazy!
> (I put myself deep into this category!).
> It's a good idea but in practice it fails.
>
> With the number and complexity of emails on the current list I
> believe the time has come for the list to be split.
>
> Do any of the list ops have stats on the number of people you join the
> list and leave within a short period of time???
> I have no idea ... all I know is some comments have been made about
> the exact points I have described.
>
> As for list servers ... Topica is as good and bad as any others I have
> seen. I have no problems with having 3 lists here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Smith
> http://rays-web.com
>
>
>
9. RE: missing posts???
- Posted by irv at take.maxleft.com
May 31, 2002
Chris Bensler wrote:
> I think the ONLY solution is for RDS to get it's own server for a
> mailing list. Have the mailing list running from eu, of course.
>
> I don't understand why you can't do this rob, your pc is already
> handling every email that passes through the list by way of moderation.
>
> You could eliminate Topica altogether, AND strip a step out of the
> mailing list process.
I've suggested this to Rob before. He could get a dozen or more
lists for a few dollars a month, and have FULL control over
those lists. Plus they'd be ad-free.
One of the problems with Topica (besides the silly
downtimes to "change the ads") is that Topica is
considered to be a spam source by some ISP's spam filters.
I have to get my Topica posts by having Topica send them to
a free e-mail account on maxleft.com, and setting that
account to forward to my real e-mail address.
Regards,
Irv
10. RE: missing posts???
> Many people on this list hate Microsoft.
I just want to say that I do NOT hate Microsoft. I just wish they would be
destroyed by a giant meteor. But I don't hate 'em.
11. RE: missing posts???
> > > Many people on this list hate Microsoft.
> >
> > I just want to say that I do NOT hate Microsoft. I just wish
> they would be
> > destroyed by a giant meteor. But I don't hate 'em.
>
> Nit picking: You need a *meteorite* to get
> rid of the obnoxious bastards.
Technically, it's a meteor first, and you can't have a meteorite unless you
first have a meteor.
Also, "obnoxious bastards" is being way too kind.
12. RE: missing posts???
On 31 May 2002, at 20:49, Chris Bensler wrote:
<snip>
> I like the idea of 3 lists, like Ray suggested. But I wouldn't subscribe
> to 3 separate lists if they weren't all hosted from the same place. I
> would prolly want to be subscribed to all 3, but could see myself
> ignoring the novice list very easily. Also, I don't want the hassle of
> maintaining 3 subscriptions. If I can have one subscription that works
> for all 3 lists, then that would be ok.
Well, Eu-Ai folded just this week. I was subscribed, but nothing happened.
What will happen when there is yet another list, and not everyone is
subscribed to all 3?
Kat
