1. hyphenator-Project &column.sort
Hi there Al,
here I am again, after a very busy period. Well, is it too late to clarify?
If you have no more time at the moment don't worry.
The sort problem is not a primary need: it deals with the idea of repeating on
startup of the prog. the same Sort situation left on exit.
This is based on a premise: the hyphenator-Pro program is built for to hyphenate
all the web pages of a site.
For that, it must gather the proper files from a selected folder, matching a
custom list of extensions, with other options not meaningful in our case.
Once walked the directory(es) those files are listed in the ListView frame, with
some columns: Date, Name, Size, Time and relative Path (if subDirs checked).
From there they can be checked and/or highlighted in various modes, in order to
hyphenate them in two possible ways: (1) directly on disk, or (2) into one
RichEdit frame endowed with Tabs.
By one side, the selected files may be loaded then all together for to be
watched and edited and browsed and studied as to the font effetcs and / or
window's size in various modes;
on the other hand that list of files, or a saved selection of them, can be
hyphenated without opening the Editor Window above; for this reason even the main
window can be left closed, directly launching the job from a splash program,
which is the start program in any case.
The Main window can even be opened by an already set command_line, which makes a
list of files to be auto-loaded: the program "remembers" the active selection if
any, so that the same files can be easily edited by one click; but that selection
is a simple, stupid sequence of list indexes, applied to the list whichever is
the sort order. For that I thought to set the sort according to the list saved on
exit. Enough primitive, isn't it? It should probably be much better if I could
use the item's ID, but I did not find any way to make something with this
parameter.
As you can see, my request was not of high priority and is not worth of too much
attention, in case of difficulty (read: the Windows' complicatedness). I am too
busy in fighting with bugs, which have been multiplied by change and grow and
enhance etc..
Now I submit to you a copy of the program at its current state; in the meanwhile
I'm preparing a site (http://hyphenator.myway.it/) where to present it and make
available to anybody who may be interested to test the 1st release. Before that I
wish to publish at least a Tutorial to facilitate the approach.
I have other questions instead, if you like:
1. how to change the caret from a line to a block in a RE when the Insert
default mode is to Replace text;
2. how to set WS_SYSMENU for each TAB opening many TABs in a Tabcontrol;
3. how to change the cursor from a line to the normal arrow with a ComboBoxEx
with images.
Antonio Alessi
2. Re: hyphenator-Project &column.sort
On 22 Jul 2005, at 11:58, Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
>
> posted by: Antonio Alessi <a.admin at myway.it>
>
> Hi there Al,
>
> here I am again, after a very busy period. Well, is it too late to clarify? If
> you have no more time at the moment don't worry.
>
> The sort problem is not a primary need: it deals with the idea of repeating on
> startup of the prog. the same Sort situation left on exit.
>
> This is based on a premise: the hyphenator-Pro program is built for to
> hyphenate
> all the web pages of a site.
That is a lot of & shy ; !! How much bigger is the webpage after total
hyphenation?
Kat
3. Re: hyphenator-Project &column.sort
Kat wrote:
>
> On 22 Jul 2005, at 11:58, Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> >
> > posted by: Antonio Alessi <a.admin at myway.it>
> >
> > Hi there Al,
> >
> > here I am again, after a very busy period. Well, is it too late to clarify?
> > If
> > you have no more time at the moment don't worry.
> >
> > The sort problem is not a primary need: it deals with the idea of repeating
> > on
> > startup of the prog. the same Sort situation left on exit.
> >
> > This is based on a premise: the hyphenator-Pro program is built for to
> > hyphenate
> > all the web pages of a site.
>
> That is a lot of & shy ; !! How much bigger is the webpage after total
> hyphenation?
>
> Kat
>
>
Hi Kat,
There must be reasons for which this function has not been implemented until
now, but the Web pages layout in most cases is bad enough to require adjustment.
Your question may be set in two terms then:
1. too many ­ make the document heavier on the net
2. too many ­ for to edit the document
(1) For the first, if you watch certain pages automatically generated by various
softwares you find such a redundancy of instructions as to make this problem
disappear. The most typical example is the thoughtless repetition of to
overwhelm white spaces, which could be defined by simple <pre></pre> with normal
white spaces inside. Another is the useless use of long tags, which most times
could be replaced by shorter ones; see <DIV></DIV> instead of <BR> and so on, for
not to mention the indentation spaces left into the files.
(2) As to the second, this is just the reason of my job: make the whole process
"transparent", allowing to hyphenate the finished page as well as to normalize it
before any update, just with a click. In one optional editor's view the hyphenate
symbol ­ is replaced by a mid-dot which let the text perfectly readable to
the webmaster.
The matter is complex enough to show that programming is not only the assemble
of appropriate intructions, but the choice of proper approaches to facilitate the
interactions between mind, fingers and eyes. Refer to the:
http://hyphenator.myway.it/newspaper_layout.htm#Our_efforts
for more details, and browse the examples to evaluate if all these ­ are
worth.
Should you find any Language [but not only] mistake plase, let me know.
Finally, should this represent a true problem in special cases, the ­ symbol
can be replaced by the proper "-" character (#AD = hyphen, not the minus sign
#2D), which is recognized by most environments and [as a suggestion of mine to
Rob Craig] should be adopted into the Euphoria as the standard Escape character
\- together with the \n, \t etc., as a further feature of the language.
Note that the RichEdit itself is able to handle it and, if you copy/paste a text
from an [Outlook] hyphenated mail message, you will get these symbols too,
premised that your editor can show or hide them.
4. Re: hyphenator-Project &column.sort
On 23 Jul 2005, at 1:03, Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
>
> posted by: Antonio Alessi <a.admin at myway.it>
>
> Kat wrote:
> >
> > On 22 Jul 2005, at 11:58, Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > posted by: Antonio Alessi <a.admin at myway.it>
> > >
> > > Hi there Al,
> > >
> > > here I am again, after a very busy period. Well, is it too late to
> > > clarify?
> > > If you have no more time at the moment don't worry.
> > >
> > > The sort problem is not a primary need: it deals with the idea of
> > > repeating
> > > on startup of the prog. the same Sort situation left on exit.
> > >
> > > This is based on a premise: the hyphenator-Pro program is built for to
> > > hyphenate all the web pages of a site.
> >
> > That is a lot of & shy ; !! How much bigger is the webpage after total
> > hyphenation?
> >
> > Kat
> >
> >
> Hi Kat,
>
> There must be reasons for which this function has not been implemented until
> now, but the Web pages layout in most cases is bad enough to require
> adjustment.
Your idea is interesting. I agree many pages need some adjustment like the
hyphenation, and i am thinking it was too much trouble to edit and manually
add all the ­. But i can write a script to add them on the server
automatically with php, or with Euphoria on the home/business computer
before upload (the best way).
> Your question may be set in two terms then:
>
> 1. too many ­ make the document heavier on the net
> 2. too many ­ for to edit the document
>
> (1) For the first, if you watch certain pages automatically generated by
> various
> softwares you find such a redundancy of instructions as to make this problem
> disappear. The most typical example is the thoughtless repetition of to
> overwhelm white spaces, which could be defined by simple <pre></pre> with
> normal
> white spaces inside. Another is the useless use of long tags, which most times
> could be replaced by shorter ones; see <DIV></DIV> instead of <BR> and so on,
> for not to mention the indentation spaces left into the files.
When i was on dialup, i used remote http shells running php to edit my
browsing before sending it to me. Only very basic html tags would not be
stripped out of the pages. I am on dsl now, and don't care too much about
page sizes.
> (2) As to the second, this is just the reason of my job: make the whole
> process
> "transparent", allowing to hyphenate the finished page as well as to normalize
> it before any update, just with a click. In one optional editor's view the
> hyphenate symbol ­ is replaced by a mid-dot which let the text perfectly
> readable to the webmaster. The matter is complex enough to show that
> programming
> is not only the assemble of appropriate intructions, but the choice of proper
> approaches to facilitate the interactions between mind, fingers and eyes.
> Refer
> to the:
>
> http://hyphenator.myway.it/newspaper_layout.htm#Our_efforts
>
> for more details, and browse the examples to evaluate if all these ­ are
> worth. Should you find any Language [but not only] mistake plase, let me know.
I think you do not need the human editor/writer to add any dot or ­.
Plain text can be made ­ automatically with ooeu (or Euphoria or php or
other) script. I see some pages people do not want hyphenated or
wordwrapped, and they use for spaces, and they would not want the
­ added. Mirc uses 160 also, to control wordwraps and common space
(ascii 32) line breaks. Many ircd now disallow 160 in channel names, nicks,
and server commands.
> Finally, should this represent a true problem in special cases, the ­
> symbol
> can be replaced by the proper "-" character (#AD = hyphen, not the minus sign
> #2D), which is recognized by most environments and [as a suggestion of mine to
> Rob Craig] should be adopted into the Euphoria as the standard Escape
> character
> \- together with the \n, \t etc., as a further feature of the language. Note
> that the RichEdit itself is able to handle it and, if you copy/paste a text
> from
> an [Outlook] hyphenated mail message, you will get these symbols too, premised
> that your editor can show or hide them.
I agree, the minus sign can confuse automatic readers, especially when
someone made a plain text page and used minus signs to hardcode the
word wrap, so when made into html page without the <pre></pre> the words
might look like " hy - phenation " in the middle of a line, making
comprehension difficult and take more time.
Did Apple fix the ­ bug in Mac OS ?
Kat
5. Re: hyphenator-Project &column.sort
>> Hi Kat,
>>
>> There must be reasons for which this function has not been implemented until
>> now, but the Web pages layout in most cases is bad enough to require
>> adjustment.
>
>Your idea is interesting. I agree many pages need some adjustment like the
>hyphenation, and i am thinking it was too much trouble to edit and manually
>add all the ­. But i can write a script to add them on the server
>automatically with php, or with Euphoria on the home/business computer
>before upload (the best way).
I'm sure you could do it, this idea was my starting point too; however I do not
see so much difference between a Euphoria script and an Euphoria program; that's
what I have done, trying to complete the job with some features useful to users
who want to watch inside the code before uploading, test or refine some details
and handle the whole project. The editor is an add-on, since with the
hyphenator-Pro entire existing sites can be hyphenated/un-hyphenated with a few
clicks, without opening the pages into any window.
However I met a problem in my experience: the use of algorithms for hyphenation
is far from being "sure", from the Language correctness point of view; many
different rules are applied everywhere for the same words, which cannot be put
under control of a single routine.
It deals with the comparison between Culture and Technology, which not always
get along.
Not all on the Web arises for lasting little time, so, as long as the first is
earning space, I believe in dictionaries and well finished texts. Many
specialized fields need custom dictionaries then.
Besides the hyphenator-Pro no matter from which tool a document has been
created: it should generally work on the HTML pages, mails, news as well as RTF
documents, Helps etc..
>> Your question may be set in two terms then:
>>
>> 1. too many ­ make the document heavier on the net
>> 2. too many ­ for to edit the document
>> ..
>
>> (2) As to the second, this is just the reason of my job: make the whole
>> process
>> "transparent", allowing to hyphenate the finished page as well as to
>> normalize
>> it before any update, just with a click. In one optional editor's view the
>> hyphenate symbol ­ is replaced by a mid-dot which let the text perfectly
>> readable to the webmaster. The matter is complex enough to show that
>> programming
>> is not only the assemble of appropriate intructions, but the choice of proper
>> approaches to facilitate the interactions between mind, fingers and eyes.
>> Refer
>> to the:
>>
>> http://hyphenator.myway.it/newspaper_layout.htm#Our_efforts
>>
>> for more details, and browse the examples to evaluate if all these ­ are
>> worth. Should you find any Language [but not only] mistake plase, let me
>> know.
>
>I think you do not need the human editor/writer to add any dot or ­.
>Plain text can be made ­ automatically with ooeu (or Euphoria or php or
>other) script. I see some pages people do not want hyphenated or
>wordwrapped, and they use for spaces, and they would not want the
>­ added. Mirc uses 160 also, to control wordwraps and common space
>(ascii 32) line breaks. Many ircd now disallow 160 in channel names, nicks,
>and server commands.
As above, no need of an editor to hyphenate and no need to hyphenate everything.
Portion of text to hyphenated can be set inside the HTML once for all (the
editor may help in that).
What I answered was that into the editor a user can see the hyphenated HTML code
with legible dots instead of ­
Hy·phen·a·tion instead of Hy­phen­a­tion makes a lot of difference.
>> Finally, should this represent a true problem in special cases, the ­
>> symbol
>> can be replaced by the proper "-" character (#AD = hyphen, not the minus sign
>> #2D), which is recognized by most environments and [as a suggestion of mine
>> to
>> Rob Craig] should be adopted into the Euphoria as the standard Escape
>> character
>> \- together with the \n, \t etc., as a further feature of the language. Note
>> that the RichEdit itself is able to handle it and, if you copy/paste a text
>> from
>> an [Outlook] hyphenated mail message, you will get these symbols too,
>> premised
>> that your editor can show or hide them.
>
>I agree, the minus sign can confuse automatic readers, especially when
>someone made a plain text page and used minus signs to hardcode the
>word wrap, so when made into html page without the <pre></pre> the words
>might look like " hy - phenation " in the middle of a line, making
>comprehension difficult and take more time.
The minus sign remains visible anyway according to its function, which is not to
hyphenate one word; the hyphen is not normally visible.
>Did Apple fix the ­ bug in Mac OS ?
Sorry, I don't know, don't use the Apple.
Antonio Alessi
