1. For all 237...
I would like to hear from anyone on this list who
has used Euphoria to develop one or more programs
for pay. Either programs which have sold, or which
you wrote as part of your job.
If you would categorize the program(s), i.e. game..
accounting.. utility... etc. that would be helpful.
If you wish to remain anonymous, send e-mail to me,
and I'll promptly forget who sent it. Otherwise,
post it to the list.
Thanks
Irv Mullins -- irv at ellijay.com
2. Re: For all 237...
>I would like to hear from anyone on this list who
>has used Euphoria to develop one or more programs
>for pay. Either programs which have sold, or which
>you wrote as part of your job.
>If you would categorize the program(s), i.e. game..
>accounting.. utility... etc. that would be helpful.
>If you wish to remain anonymous, send e-mail to me,
>and I'll promptly forget who sent it. Otherwise,
>post it to the list.
I did a Cash and Inventory system for a pub (bar). Seeing
it with historical perspective it was quite awful ;)
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
3. Re: For all 237...
>I would like to hear from anyone on this list who
>has used Euphoria to develop one or more programs
>for pay. Either programs which have sold, or which
>you wrote as part of your job.
>If you would categorize the program(s), i.e. game..
>accounting.. utility... etc. that would be helpful.
>If you wish to remain anonymous, send e-mail to me,
>and I'll promptly forget who sent it. Otherwise,
>post it to the list.
I have made some programs which are used at my work place. Mostly to make=
calculations somewhat easier.
Ad Rienks
4. Re: For all 237...
On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:12:55 -0500, Irv Mullins <irv at ELLIJAY.COM> wrote:
>I would like to hear from anyone on this list who
>has used Euphoria to develop one or more programs
>for pay. Either programs which have sold, or which
>you wrote as part of your job.
>If you would categorize the program(s), i.e. game..
>accounting.. utility... etc. that would be helpful.
>If you wish to remain anonymous, send e-mail to me,
>and I'll promptly forget who sent it. Otherwise,
>post it to the list.
>
>Thanks
>Irv Mullins -- irv at ellijay.com
Yes. I have used Euphoria in a business application.
It was a utility for parsing some raw print out data.
I was going to use Quick Basic OR QBasic. But I
quickly noticed that I didn't currently have it loaded
on my machine. I only chose QB first because I am
still slightly more accustom to its commands.
(Old habits die hard). From my perspective my only
other alternatives where Euphoria or PERL (hissss).
As you can see I don't particularly care for PERL
but it is currently the easiest way for me to program
for the web. (CGI's).
_________________________
Lucius L. Hilley III lhilley at cdc.net
http://www.cdc.net/~lhilley
http://www.americanantiques.com
http://www.dragonvet.com
_________________________
5. Re: For all 237...
>>I would like to hear from anyone on this list who
>>has used Euphoria to develop one or more programs
>>for pay. Either programs which have sold, or which
>>you wrote as part of your job....
So far, I have had 4 replies. All fit the category of
"quick filter-type proggies at work"
Here's a new question for all - generally the first question
asked by clients after "how are you today?"
Given the requirements below, please estimate how long
it would take to prepare a working system: Assume you
are to be paid a flat fee, so taking longer won't increase
your income any (and will take time from other more enjoyable
pursuits:)
Reguirements (from a recent job):
Create a program that can maintain a database of 50,000 customers
(providing for expansion to 100,000).
The program must allow simultaneous use by at least 4 persons.
The program must be able to locate a specific customer within
5 seconds (1 is preferable) by searching on any one or more of
the following fields:
name, address, city, state, zip code, phone number, last purchase date
Partial search strings are mandatory, i;e. SMI returns all Smith, Smithe, etc.
902 returns all zips like 90210, 90211, etc.
Smith and 902 returns all Smiths/Smithers...etc living in area code 902xx
Case is ignored.
Assume the client will purchase whatever support software you recommend.
(Tell us what it is, and how long it will take to get a running system,
saving fancy graphics and such for later, if you like.)
I have some interesting real-world info I will share later:
Regards,
Irv
6. Re: For all 237...
Irv,
Here's an example of where Euphoria is not the best language for the job.
It lacks file locking, and indexed file searching.
If I were to write this program in any particular language, I would choose
an obscure one called PLB which exceeds all of the project's goals. If the
client already has a network installed so much the better, otherwise I'd
recommend they purchase NT 4.0 or NetWare 5.0. As long as they have DOS
5.0 or better running on their workstations, they're all set.
Here's the time breakdown:
Programming 1.5 Hours
Test/Debug/Demo 1.5 Hours
File conversion 1.0 Hours
-------------------------------------------
Total Time 4.0 Hours
Note that I am not including data entry (if required). That's what we have
peons for...
If they need a server installed, the client (or myself as the contractor),
is looking at a couple of days to get a sub in to do cabling, a day for
server install and config, and a day for every 25 clients attatched to the
new network. Then tack on 3 days of troubleshooting just to make sure
everything goes O.K.
-----Original Message-----
From: Irv Mullins [SMTP:irv at ELLIJAY.COM]
Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 9:55 AM
To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: For all 237...
>>I would like to hear from anyone on this list who
>>has used Euphoria to develop one or more programs
>>for pay. Either programs which have sold, or which
>>you wrote as part of your job....
So far, I have had 4 replies. All fit the category of
"quick filter-type proggies at work"
Here's a new question for all - generally the first question
asked by clients after "how are you today?"
Given the requirements below, please estimate how long
it would take to prepare a working system: Assume you
are to be paid a flat fee, so taking longer won't increase
your income any (and will take time from other more enjoyable
pursuits:)
Reguirements (from a recent job):
Create a program that can maintain a database of 50,000 customers
(providing for expansion to 100,000).
The program must allow simultaneous use by at least 4 persons.
The program must be able to locate a specific customer within
5 seconds (1 is preferable) by searching on any one or more of
the following fields:
name, address, city, state, zip code, phone number, last purchase date
Partial search strings are mandatory, i;e. SMI returns all Smith, Smithe,
etc.
902 returns all zips like 90210, 90211, etc.
Smith and 902 returns all Smiths/Smithers...etc living in area code 902xx
Case is ignored.
Assume the client will purchase whatever support software you recommend.
(Tell us what it is, and how long it will take to get a running system,
saving fancy graphics and such for later, if you like.)
I have some interesting real-world info I will share later:
Regards,
Irv
7. Re: For all 237...
>Given the requirements below, please estimate how long
>it would take to prepare a working system:
Every non-trivial program takes eight weeks. Possibly longer. That's
from a lifetime of designing, coding and banging head on table in
frustration. I'm counting using 7 hour days, 5 days a week.
You didn't mention if documentation ( user manual etc ) was required.
My first task would be to ask for an *exact* specification of what's
wanted 
I understand what you were trying to say though. Will be
interesting to see what figures you come up with ... my bet's on 8
weeks, failing that, 6 months.
8. Re: For all 237...
On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:50:42 -0000, Bown, John <John.Bown at UK.ORIGIN-IT.COM>
wrote:
>>Given the requirements below, please estimate how long
>>it would take to prepare a working system:
>
>Every non-trivial program takes eight weeks. Possibly longer. That's
>from a lifetime of designing, coding and banging head on table in
>frustration. I'm counting using 7 hour days, 5 days a week.
>
>You didn't mention if documentation ( user manual etc ) was required.
>
Oops! Let's say no. The program should be self-evident as far
as the untrained user goes. We'll not worry about documenting
for the maintainer just now.
>My first task would be to ask for an *exact* specification of what's
>wanted I understand what you were trying to say though. Will be
>interesting to see what figures you come up with ... my bet's on 8
>weeks, failing that, 6 months.
I think this is as exact as you're likely to get from a client.
As an afterthought - just as in real life - this should be
something that can later be integrated into an on-line order
processing system without much effort.
People usually mention details such as this about halfway
thru the process.
Irv
9. Re: For all 237...
>
>I think this is as exact as you're likely to get from a client.
<snip>
>People usually mention details such as this about halfway
>thru the process.
Or the day before you turn up, program burnt onto CD-ROM, suit cleaned
ready to collect the money
I'm still sticking with 8 wks / 6 mths.
10. Re: For all 237...
>Here's a new question for all - generally the first question
>asked by clients after "how are you today?"
>
>Given the requirements below, please estimate how long
>it would take to prepare a working system: Assume you
>are to be paid a flat fee, so taking longer won't increase
>your income any (and will take time from other more enjoyable
>pursuits:)
>
>Reguirements (from a recent job):
>Create a program that can maintain a database of 50,000 customers
>(providing for expansion to 100,000).
>
>The program must allow simultaneous use by at least 4 persons.
>The program must be able to locate a specific customer within
>5 seconds (1 is preferable) by searching on any one or more of
>the following fields:
>name, address, city, state, zip code, phone number, last purchase date
>
>Partial search strings are mandatory, i;e. SMI returns all Smith, Smithe,
etc.
>902 returns all zips like 90210, 90211, etc.
>Smith and 902 returns all Smiths/Smithers...etc living in area code 902xx
>Case is ignored.
>
>Assume the client will purchase whatever support software you recommend.
>(Tell us what it is, and how long it will take to get a running system,
> saving fancy graphics and such for later, if you like.)
Specifications development & abstract data model: 2 days
Programming/debug cicle: 5/10 days (first almost-working pre-alpha after day
2)
Implementation (on clients network): 1 day
User's (boss) capacitacion: 0.5 days
User's feedback modifications and refinement: 2 months
Payment: god will say ;)
Implementation requirements:
Database server with RDBMS (InterBase suggested) with 5 concurrent user
licences
Windows NT 4 network preferred
A lower cost&performance system can be developed, but programming time
increases and potential data integrity corruption may occur. For bussiness
critical information just use a good&scalable DBMS!
BTW InterBase has a native JDBMS... it's very simple to port your local
database
system to the Internet.
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
