1. A rant on an Ideal languages Was: Re: RNG Test: Code to generate
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At 08:16 PM 02/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, you wrote:
>> Joel: if you ever get it(U4) figured out ... please share your insight.
>> FRUSTRATED here also.
>
>It would be instructive to all of us if you would give an example of a
>programming language you find _non-frustrating._
>
>I've been looking for one for a long time.
>
>Regards,
>Irv
We could all laugh out loud at the foolish guy who tries to answer this
question. Ok I'll play the fool.
Let's take Euphoria as a starting point.
I want a language to write like I am instructing the machine how to do what I
want it to do.
Shorthand is ok but cryptic is not.
I like the idea of :
writeln(file1, "This is part of a test file entry")
and the program writes the string: "This is part of a test file entry" into the
text file with the \n \c
already appended, and if I say
write(file1, "This is part of a test file entry")
it writes to the file without the linefeed and carrage return characters
or
write("Hello world" ) and it writes "hello world" to the screen
Ok so that's pretty much pascal conventions.
"puts" to me seems like a goyim spelling of putz and makes as much
sense.
C is a great language but it fails as much as it succeeds because the
programmer is forced to begin to think like the compiler rather that the
compiler helping the programmer to "execute" the programmer's ideas
The types in U4 are fine and it has type creation extensibility this is good!
But type declaration is odd and at times down right strange. I was originally
left with the impression that type declaration in u4 were not required and
types could be thown around at will -- not so. Hmmm. Gotta be the User! (HEY
THATS'S ME!)
Then there is sequence thing... to me (silly me!) writing:
for i = 1 to 10 do
ThisIsADataSequence[i]=0
end for
makes sense to zero a one dimensional array who would have thought that:
repeat(ThisIsADataSequence,10)
is the only way it will initialize a zero'd sequence otherwise an error is
thrown.
and I'm still not sure that
for i = 1 to 10 do
ThisIsADataSequence[i]=i
end for
is a legal for operation.
Support for 32 bit logical operators would be nice... Hey if I'm going to have
to rewrite C functions into Euphoric-C the least I need is to have the same
base types of operators
I LIKE n dimensional arrays. Having to build sequences of sequences of
sequences.... of sequences and then having to figure out how to insert data
into them makes my foolish head hurt.
While we're at it let's throw OOP on the fire as well. Ever found an EASY OOP
language? Ever found OOP useful? What about Visual Interface coding? Yikes! not
fun at all!
How about Code re-useability? forget it!!!! Originally that was the idea behind
DLLs. Tell me how many times have you created dlls from scratch? How many times
have you used SOMEBODY elses dll?
I like the togetherness of the u4 community and the helpfulness. The
documentation is good but not having a written user guide is less that helpful.
The problem I seem to see most often is folks making things too complex just
for the sake of being complex. Why should a programming language HAVE to look
esoteric? Darned if I know.
Personal opinion: Programing languages should assist in solving problems and
not creat new ones.
Ok so remember I warned you all I was playing the fool here! Be gentle when you
beat me up! 
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<html>
At 08:16 PM 02/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:<br>
>On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, you wrote:<br>
>> Joel: if you ever get it(U4) figured out ... please share your
insight.<br>
>> FRUSTRATED here also.<br>
><br>
>It would be instructive to all of us if you would give an example of
a<br>
>programming language you find _non-frustrating._<br>
><br>
>I've been looking for one for a long time.<br>
><br>
>Regards,<br>
>Irv<br>
<br>
<br>
We could all laugh out loud at the foolish guy who tries to answer this
question. Ok I'll play the fool.<br>
<br>
Let's take Euphoria as a starting point.<br>
<br>
I want a language to write like I am instructing the machine how to do
what I want it to do. <br>
<br>
Shorthand is ok but cryptic is not.<br>
<br>
I like the idea of :<br>
<br>
"This is part of a test file entry")<br>
<br>
and the program writes the string: "This is part of a test file
entry" into the text file with the \n \c <br>
<br>
already appended, and if I say <br>
<dl>
<dl>
<dd>write(file1, "This is part of a test file entry") <br>
<br>
</dl>
</dl>it writes to the file without the linefeed and carrage return
characters<br>
<br>
or <br>
<br>
world" ) and it writes "hello world" to the screen<br>
<br>
Ok so that's pretty much pascal conventions.<br>
<br>
to me seems like a goyim spelling of putz and makes as much sense.<br>
<br>
C is a great language but it fails as much as it succeeds because the
programmer is forced to begin to think like the compiler rather that the
compiler helping the programmer to "execute" the programmer's
ideas<br>
<br>
The types in U4 are fine and it has type creation extensibility this is
good! But type declaration is odd and at times down right strange.
I was originally left with the impression that type declaration in u4
were not required and types could be thown around at will -- not
so. Hmmm. Gotta be the User! (HEY THATS'S ME!)<br>
<br>
Then there is sequence thing... to me (silly me!) writing:<br>
<dl>
<dl>
<dd>for i = 1 to 10 do
<dd>end for<br>
<br>
</dl>
</dl>makes sense to zero a one dimensional array who would have thought
that:<br>
<dl>
<dl>
<dd>repeat(ThisIsADataSequence,10)<br>
<br>
</dl>
</dl>is the only way it will initialize a zero'd sequence otherwise an
error is thrown.<br>
<br>
and I'm still not sure that <br>
<dl>
<dl>
<dd>for i = 1 to 10 do
<dl>
<dl>
</dl>
</dl>
<dd>end for<br>
<br>
</dl>
</dl>is a legal for operation.<br>
<br>
Support for 32 bit logical operators would be nice... Hey if I'm
going to have to rewrite C functions into Euphoric-C the least I
need is to have the same base types of operators <br>
<br>
I LIKE n dimensional arrays. Having to build sequences of sequences of
sequences.... of sequences and then having to figure out how to insert
data into them makes my foolish head hurt.<br>
<br>
While we're at it let's throw OOP on the fire as well. Ever found an EASY
OOP language? Ever found OOP useful? What about Visual Interface coding?
Yikes! not fun at all! <br>
<br>
How about Code re-useability? forget it!!!! Originally that was the idea
behind DLLs. Tell me how many times have you created dlls from scratch?
How many times have you used SOMEBODY elses dll? <br>
<br>
I like the togetherness of the u4 community and the helpfulness. The
documentation is good but not having a written user guide is less that
helpful.<br>
<br>
The problem I seem to see most often is folks making things too complex
just for the sake of being complex. Why should a programming language
HAVE to look esoteric? Darned if I know. <br>
<br>
Personal opinion: Programing languages should assist in solving problems
and not creat new ones.<br>
<br>
Ok so remember I warned you all I was playing the fool here! Be gentle
when you beat me up! <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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