1. Jiri's Widgets
I noticed a couple more minor items:
1. If I move a window so that part of it is off the screen, release it, and
then drag it back, the part of the window that was off-screen is rendered
black.
2. Buttons will trigger once they are pushed, even if you move the mouse off
of them.
3. Windows disappear when you move them. More typically, they should stay
where they are until the drag operation is completed.
-- David Cuny
2. Re: Jiri's Widgets
David just wrote:
> 1. If I move a window so that part of it is off the screen, release
> it, and then drag it back, the part of the window that was
> off-screen is rendered black.
I do not redraw windows, I just save the rectangular image and
re-display that at the new location. Simpler and faster, I thought.
But, of course, off-screen pixels are undefined. Typically a bunch of
zero, I suppose, and I finish with a black egg on my face, so to
speak. I am open to any reasonable suggestion...
> 2. Buttons will trigger once they are pushed, even if you move the
> mouse off of them.
No second chances, mate, as my Australian cousins would say. Isn't
that the American way now too?
> 3. Windows disappear when you move them. More typically, they should
> stay where they are until the drag operation is completed.
Never noticed. I do not watch Windows much. I'll fix it.
Thanks, David. Last night I almost finished a rewrite, but then,
unwisely, got bogged down in file selector redesign, and that might
take a session or two. It will not be probably finished before Sunday,
because I have to escort my wife to a concert tonight and I have
evening tennis on Fridays.
jiri
3. Re: Jiri's Widgets
- Posted by Everett Williams <rett at GVTC.COM>
Mar 08, 2000
-
Last edited Mar 09, 2000
Jiri Babor wrote:
>David just wrote:
>
>> 1. If I move a window so that part of it is off the screen, release
>> it, and then drag it back, the part of the window that was
>> off-screen is rendered black.
>
>I do not redraw windows, I just save the rectangular image and
>re-display that at the new location. Simpler and faster, I thought.
>But, of course, off-screen pixels are undefined. Typically a bunch of
>zero, I suppose, and I finish with a black egg on my face, so to
>speak. I am open to any reasonable suggestion...
>
Build you a virtual window and a displayable window. All logic except
actual transfer to write buffer happens to the virtual window.
Everett L.(Rett) Williams
rett at gvtc.com
4. Re: Jiri's Widgets
- Posted by David Cuny <dcuny at LANSET.COM>
Mar 08, 2000
-
Last edited Mar 09, 2000
Jiri Babor wrote:
> I do not redraw windows, I just save the
> rectangular image and re-display that at
> the new location.
Most windowing systems don't store the graphics in the window. Instead, they
report to the window when a portion of the window has been 'damaged'
(overlapped, off-screen, etc.) and the window's code is supposed to take
care of it. I think the Macintosh is an exception to this rule; it keeps a
buffer (grafPort) for each window.
Personally, I'm going to try double-buffering with my DOS window manager.
When I draw into the window, I'll keep track of the window areas that were
'damaged', and only copy those portions to the screen when the drawing is
finished.
> No second chances, mate, as my Australian
> cousins would say. Isn't that the American way
> now too?
In my family, the expression is "you snooze, you lose". But that only
applies in cards and scarfing down dessert.
> Thanks, David. Last night I almost finished a
> rewrite, but then, unwisely, got bogged down
> in file selector redesign, and that might take a
> session or two.
The windows look very nice, and have a look and feel all their own. Very
slick.
-- David Cuny
5. Re: Jiri's Widgets
David Cuny wrote:
> Most windowing systems don't store the graphics in the window.
> Instead, they report to the window when a portion of the window has
> been 'damaged' (overlapped, off-screen, etc.) and the window's code
> is supposed to take care of it.
Too complex, David. I want to keep it as simple as practicable.
> Personally, I'm going to try double-buffering with my DOS window
> manager. When I draw into the window, I'll keep track of the window
> areas that were 'damaged', and only copy those portions to the
> screen when the drawing is finished.
(Just to show my total ignorance: people talk about double and even
triple buffering all the time. David, can you briefly explain what
those terms really mean. In simple language, please.)
Even your scheme sounds expensive. I do not really want to keep track
of every menu and message box in respect with every thing else that
happens to be on the screen. No wonder we need 600 MHz boxes with
Gigabytes of memory just to run some window systems. - I think, I will
simply not allow windows to slide out of screen.
> The windows look very nice, and have a look and feel all their own.
> Very slick.
I think you got it all mixed up, you really wanted to say 'very simple
minded'. If you consistently over do it like this with you kindness,
no one will believe a word of what you say soon ;). Thanks, David.
Earlier Everett L.(Rett) Williams wrote:
>> I do not redraw windows, I just save the rectangular image and
>> re-display that at the new location. Simpler and faster, I thought.
>> But, of course, off-screen pixels are undefined. Typically a bunch
of
>> zero, I suppose, and I finish with a black egg on my face, so to
>> speak. I am open to any reasonable suggestion...
>>
> Build you a virtual window and a displayable window. All logic
except
> actual transfer to write buffer happens to the virtual window.
I am not sure, Rett, I understand you completely. But if you mean
every thing happens first in the virtual plane and only the final
result is blasted on to the real screen, then I have a problem.
Firstly, to do it properly, I would have to go back to assembly, which
would be very stupid for a number of reasons I am reluctant to discuss
right now. I even gave up forth, and then C, to get some distance
between my brain and the metal buried under the grey plastic! And I am
sure you are not suggesting peeks and pokes, or are you? Secondly, it
is such a waste of effort to reblast the whole thing for every small
incremental change...
Thanks, guys. Good night. jiri
6. Re: Jiri's Widgets
jiri babor wrote:
> Too complex, David. I want to keep it as simple as practicable.
Yeah, I just wanted to let you know that the "big boys" don't have any magic
bullets.
> (Just to show my total ignorance: people talk
> about double and even triple buffering all the time.
> David, can you briefly explain what those terms
> really mean. In simple language, please.)
It means that you draw to an off-screen bitmap, and then copy the results to
the screen when you are done. This avoids the "flicker" that you see when a
window or widget drawn.
> Even your scheme sounds expensive.
You're correct. That's why most windowing systems do it the way I described
above. Set a flag on the window, and if part of the window was
off-screen/blocked/etc, redraw it entirely. Otherwise, you know it's safe
just copy the image.
Of course, the "other" windowing systems keep track of the "damaged"
portions, and only redraw what was destroyed. The code is a bit more ugly
than redrawing everything.
> I think, I will simply not allow windows to slide out of screen.
That fits with you're "simple minded" approach. 
-- David Cuny
7. Re: Jiri's Widgets
jiri babor wrote:
>Earlier Everett L.(Rett) Williams wrote:
>
>>> I do not redraw windows, I just save the rectangular image and
>>> re-display that at the new location. Simpler and faster, I thought.
>>> But, of course, off-screen pixels are undefined. Typically a bunch
>of
>>> zero, I suppose, and I finish with a black egg on my face, so to
>>> speak. I am open to any reasonable suggestion...
>>>
>> Build you a virtual window and a displayable window. All logic
>except
>> actual transfer to write buffer happens to the virtual window.
>
>I am not sure, Rett, I understand you completely. But if you mean
>every thing happens first in the virtual plane and only the final
>result is blasted on to the real screen, then I have a problem.
>Firstly, to do it properly, I would have to go back to assembly, which
>would be very stupid for a number of reasons I am reluctant to discuss
>right now. I even gave up forth, and then C, to get some distance
>between my brain and the metal buried under the grey plastic! And I am
>sure you are not suggesting peeks and pokes, or are you? Secondly, it
>is such a waste of effort to reblast the whole thing for every small
>incremental change...
>
>Thanks, guys. Good night. jiri
Ye wound me laddie, peek and poke indeed, though with the tools at
hand, it is rather hard to avoid at times 
With the ability to describe
and point to external data structures such as the write buffer for the
video card, much of the need for peek and poke would go away...but
now I'm dreaming again. I haven't examined your code closely, but
if you are managing to move windows partially off the screen now, it
can't be as hard to just move them around as complete objects with a
new set of limits...the virtual screen instead of the physical screen.
Effectively, if you set up the virtual limits of your screen properly, you
will never have to cut off an object again. On the other hand, you will
have to trim your write logic to stop displaying at the edge of the real
screen...something that you already do. The logic can't be that much
different from the logic that handles overlapping windows on the
existing screen...or do you handle that situation...I haven't tested.
Everett L.(Rett) Williams
rett at gvtc.com
8. Jiri's Widgets
Howdy there Jiri,
Just got around to playing with your Widgets. Pretty cool.
Are you planing to do any documentation for them. I seem to remember some
discussion on that a bit ago but don't remember if you said that you were
going to do anything or not.
L8R
Glen
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9. Re: Jiri's Widgets
I am not sure, Glen, it's even warranted. Only a handful of people showed
any interest. Also I really do not know, what people need or want. And at
what level the docs/tutorials should be pitched. In other words, do you just
want to know how to use the widgets, relying on me or someone else to
provide the missing bits and pieces, or do you want to roll your own as
well?
I included lots of simple examples in the package, hoping they would guide
the few really interested. My Travelling Salesman program can also be used
as an example. I have several more widgets based programs in the works, many
times promised new font editor is one of them and is almost finished. But on
the other hand the new tennis season is already under way, and my
grandchildren have much higher priority too...
Basically, in this little universe of ours so much dominated by very vocal
Bill's disciples, it's really hard to gauge interests in anything other than
vagaries of M$ Window$...
jiri (moaning again...)
>From: Glen Brown <gbrown7777 at YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: Euphoria Programming for MS-DOS <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
>To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
>Subject: Jiri's Widgets
>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:22:47 +0300
>
>Howdy there Jiri,
>
>Just got around to playing with your Widgets. Pretty cool.
>
>Are you planing to do any documentation for them. I seem to remember some
>discussion on that a bit ago but don't remember if you said that you were
>going to do anything or not.
>
>L8R
>Glen
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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10. Re: Jiri's Widgets
how come jiri's edit (read only?) window is so slow when scrolling? i
remember he is specially good with speeding code, so why so slow...?
with that slow speed i think noone will use that edit window
11. Re: Jiri's Widgets
On 28 Sep 2000, at 12:19, jiri babor wrote:
> I am not sure, Glen, it's even warranted. Only a handful of people showed
> any interest. Also I really do not know, what people need or want. And at
> what level the docs/tutorials should be pitched. In other words, do you just
> want to know how to use the widgets, relying on me or someone else to
> provide the missing bits and pieces, or do you want to roll your own as
> well?
<snip>
/me is in a rare mood (it's prolly the fever), and hands jiri a Gold Star and a
pat on the
back.
Kat
12. Re: Jiri's Widgets
- Posted by jiri babor <jiri_babor at HOTMAIL.COM>
Sep 28, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 29, 2000
I really hope, Kat, you will get better soon. jiri
>From: Kat <gertie at PELL.NET>
>Reply-To: Euphoria Programming for MS-DOS <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
>To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
>Subject: Re: Jiri's Widgets
>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:15:28 -0500
>
>On 28 Sep 2000, at 12:19, jiri babor wrote:
>
> > I am not sure, Glen, it's even warranted. Only a handful of people
>showed
> > any interest. Also I really do not know, what people need or want. And
>at
> > what level the docs/tutorials should be pitched. In other words, do you
>just
> > want to know how to use the widgets, relying on me or someone else to
> > provide the missing bits and pieces, or do you want to roll your own as
> > well?
>
><snip>
>
>/me is in a rare mood (it's prolly the fever), and hands jiri a Gold Star
>and a pat on the
>back.
>
>Kat
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13. Re: Jiri's Widgets
- Posted by jiri babor <jiri_babor at HOTMAIL.COM>
Sep 28, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 29, 2000
Skoda wrote:
>how come jiri's edit (read only?) window is so slow when scrolling? i
>remember he is specially good with speeding code, so why so slow...?
>with that slow speed i think noone will use that edit window
Because it's a quick kludge that you do not notice on a reasonably fast
machine: when scrolling, the routine re-interprets the whole string,
including the hidden part, to get the correct attributes for the visible
part. I'll try to fix it for the next release.
But if you don't want to use it (noone), it's fine with me too. jiri
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14. Re: Jiri's Widgets
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, jiri babor wrote:
>> I am not sure, Glen, it's even warranted. Only a handful of people showed
>> any interest. Also I really do not know, what people need or want. And at
>> what level the docs/tutorials should be pitched. In other words, do you just
>> want to know how to use the widgets, relying on me or someone else to
>> provide the missing bits and pieces, or do you want to roll your own as
>> well?
>>
>> I included lots of simple examples in the package, hoping they would guide
>> the few really interested. My Travelling Salesman program can also be used
>> as an example. I have several more widgets based programs in the works, many
>> times promised new font editor is one of them and is almost finished. But on
>> the other hand the new tennis season is already under way, and my
>> grandchildren have much higher priority too...
>>
>> Basically, in this little universe of ours so much dominated by very vocal
>> Bill's disciples, it's really hard to gauge interests in anything other than
>> vagaries of M$ Window$...
>>
>> jiri (moaning again...)
>>
Your widgets are not for Linux yet are they? I know someone was doin a port
of graphic.e to linux and completed that but they also said they were goin to
port your widgets as well. Do you happen to know who is doin this jiri?
anyone else on the list?
--
evil, corruption and bad taste
^cense
15. Re: Jiri's Widgets
cense wrote:
>Your widgets are not for Linux yet are they? I know someone was doin a port
>of graphic.e to linux and completed that but they also said they were goin
>to
>port your widgets as well. Do you happen to know who is doin this jiri?
>anyone else on the list?
Mike Sabal did the graphics.e conversion. I have not tried it, I just read
it and most of it made sense. Anyway, Rob anointed it with a stamp, so I
suppose it must be ok. I think it was also Mike who made some noise about
the widgets port, but you will have to ask him about his plans. If the linux
pixel routines are fundamentally identical with the dos version and are not
excessively slow, the port itself should be pretty trivial. Beyond that I
cannot comment, I have no real linux experience. Last month I made another
attempt to enter that particular paradise - I know, Irv, you are pissing
yourself with pleasure, but go on, please, pretend you are not listening! -
I downloaded and installed the Peanut distribution, but I have not played
with it at all. I leave these kinds of things for the weekends, but lately
with a one-, three- and five-year old rascals under my feet I have not had
any real chance...
jiri
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16. Re: Jiri's Widgets
- Posted by cense <cense at MAIL.RU>
Sep 28, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 29, 2000
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, jiri babor wrote:
>> cense wrote:
>>
>> >Your widgets are not for Linux yet are they? I know someone was doin a port
>> >of graphic.e to linux and completed that but they also said they were goin
>> >to
>> >port your widgets as well. Do you happen to know who is doin this jiri?
>> >anyone else on the list?
>>
>> Mike Sabal did the graphics.e conversion. I have not tried it, I just read
>> it and most of it made sense. Anyway, Rob anointed it with a stamp, so I
>> suppose it must be ok. I think it was also Mike who made some noise about
>> the widgets port, but you will have to ask him about his plans. If the linux
>> pixel routines are fundamentally identical with the dos version and are not
>> excessively slow, the port itself should be pretty trivial. Beyond that I
>> cannot comment, I have no real linux experience. Last month I made another
>> attempt to enter that particular paradise - I know, Irv, you are pissing
>> yourself with pleasure, but go on, please, pretend you are not listening! -
>> I downloaded and installed the Peanut distribution, but I have not played
>> with it at all. I leave these kinds of things for the weekends, but lately
>> with a one-, three- and five-year old rascals under my feet I have not had
>> any real chance...
>>
>> jiri
Thanks for the info jiri :) always knowlegable as usual!
--
evil, corruption and bad taste
^cense
17. Re: Jiri's Widgets
Howdy Jiri,
Thanks for the response...
<SNIP>
I am not sure, Glen, it's even warranted.
...
And at what level
...
do you just want to know how to use the widgets,
...
or do you want to roll your own as well?
...
I included lots of simple examples in the package, hoping they would guide
the few really interested.
</SNIP>
I would not feel qualified to determine if it is warranted or not. As you
said, ther was not a terrific response. I think most people are thinking
along the lines of windows programming.
...
The level I was thinking of would be fairly basic.
...
Yes, Basic info on how to use them and what their parameters are.
...
No I do not want to 'roll my own'. I don't know enough about programming in
general yet to even attempt to 'roll my own' or even how to go about it.
Also, I'm not quite sure how you mean it. I think that you are asking if I
want to create my own 'widgets', to which the answer at this point is NO.
...
I looked at all of your examples and there is a decided lack of comments in
all of them. I have not taken the time yet to study them. Sometimes
looking at code (even my own) make my head hurt when I am not sure what is
going on in the first place.
<SNIP>
I have several more widgets based programs in the works, many times promised
new font editor is one of them and is almost finished. But on the other hand
the new tennis season is already under way, and my grandchildren have much
higher priority too...
</SNIP>
Anxiously awaiting the new widget based programs.
Definatly go have fun with the family. I am a new father and enjoy every
minite that I can spend with my 4 month old daughter. Gota keep the family
at the top of the priority list or else nothing works right.
<SNIP>
...dominated by very vocal Bill's disciples, it's really hard to gauge
interests in anything other than vagaries of M$ Window$...
</SNIP>
No vocalisations here. Have been very dis-enchanted my M$ for some time. I
really hate having to re-install Win every couple of months. Trying to
figure out Linux right now.
Take care and keep up the good work.
I hear the wee-one calling. Gotta go.
L8R
Glen
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18. Re: Jiri's Widgets
Jiri wrote:
> But if you don't want to use it (noone), it's fine with me too. jiri
i'm just telling you why noone will use that edit window (when writing his
program), otherwise good work
19. Re: Jiri's Widgets
As Jiri mentioned, I was working on that. I had a weekend all planned out to
get that done (2 weeks ago), but then my paying job decided they needed half our
application package revamped. I'm still trying to dig out from the piles on my
desk. I haven't quit the project, it's just under the other piles 
.
I did take 5 minutes to replace an unused Redhat partition with a Peanut and was
very impressed as to how quickly and completely it installed and found the
network. I still have no access to the Novell drives, but hopefully their
"SmartClient" will be available soon.
Michael J. Sabal
>>> cense at MAIL.RU 09/28/00 07:29PM >>>
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, jiri babor wrote:
Your widgets are not for Linux yet are they? I know someone was doin a port
of graphic.e to linux and completed that but they also said they were goin to
port your widgets as well. Do you happen to know who is doin this jiri?
anyone else on the list?
--
evil, corruption and bad taste
^cense
20. Re: Jiri's Widgets
- Posted by cense <cense at mail.ru>
Sep 29, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 30, 2000
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Mike Sabal wrote:
>> As Jiri mentioned, I was working on that. I had a weekend all planned out to
>> get that done (2 weeks ago), but then my paying job decided they needed
>> half our application package revamped. I'm still trying to dig out from the
>> piles on my desk. I haven't quit the project, it's just under the other
>> piles . I did take 5 minutes to replace an unused Redhat partition
>> with a Peanut and was very impressed as to how quickly and completely it
>> installed and found the network. I still have no access to the Novell
>> drives, but hopefully their "SmartClient" will be available soon.
>> Michael J. Sabal
Its all good Michael. I am in no hurry whatsoever for those widgets. I just
saw a few postings on them and wanted to know what was up with the linux
port. Thanks for the info. I hope you have success with the port. I know its
hard to keep on top of everything all the time.
--
evil, corruption and bad taste
^cense
