1. Whitch is better?
- Posted by Scott_Husen <husen at EPIX.NET>
Sep 26, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 27, 2000
Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
2. Re: Whitch is better?
- Posted by Lewis Townsend <keroltarr at HOTMAIL.COM>
Sep 26, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 27, 2000
Hello Scott,
>Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
>Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
Well, it depends entirely on what kind of program you are creating.
As far as "easier" goes, it is easier to make GUI front-ends in VB
but if you are looking for ease of data manipulation I would
definitely vouch for Euphoria. As for "better", that depends on how
you define it. VB is much more widely used than Euphoria and VB is
supported by a much more wealthy company so its support is definitely
at the top but that again depends on what you define as "good" support.
If you are looking for MORE people that can help and MORE sources
of documentation and MORE example programs, then you are looking
for VB. However, Euphoria is definitely NOT lacking in those
categories either. This list is a resourceful, and friendly (most
of the time) place to ask questions and get plenty of help. Not to
mention that occasionally even Robert Craig, the languages creator,
will answer posts. He hardly ever ignores posts directed at him.
Lastly, distribution of Euphoria programs is MUCH simpler than
VB as you don't have to distribute all the extra files and Eu's
file sizes are MUCH SMALLER. Also, I believe Euphoria is FASTER
than VB but I haven't tested it yet.
VB is definitely easier to use for some applications but over-all
Euphoria is my pick as a general-purpose language.
later,
Lewis Townsend.
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3. Re: Whitch is better?
>Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
>Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
The answer is 42. I use as my reference, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy" series by Douglas Adams.
-----
cheers,
Derek Parnell
4. Re: Whitch is better?
- Posted by "R. W. D." <filexfer3 at JUNO.COM>
Sep 26, 2000
-
Last edited Sep 27, 2000
>Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
>Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
This looks like a seeder post...
Try using both languages; then draw your own conclusion.
Soliciting opinions on "which is better" just incites flame wars.
5. Re: Whitch is better?
Scott:
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott_Husen <husen at EPIX.NET>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 9:26 PM
Subject: Whitch is better?
> Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
> Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
They are two completely different things.
Euphoria is simple (yes, this is simple, wait till you chance into C++ or
asm), text-based (that is, you write it, debug it, etc. with a purely
text-based editor), and sequential (even if you can write procedures like
subroutines and functions, you have to invoke them at your own discretion).
Basic used to be like that, even if I (and most people around here) think
that Eu is far more powerful and generally nicer. But Visual Basic is
nothing like Basic, although it retains some of the original syntax. VB can
be very complicated (i.e. you can write simple programs, but they will do
practically nothing, and certainly nothing better than Euphoria or any
similar language), it is based on a graphical interface (you design "forms"
or "screens" full of text, pictures and buttons) and it is intended to be
event-driven (or, it does mostly nothing until the user enters text, clicks
on a button, etc.).
That is not to say that you should avoid VB. In fact, mastering a VB-like
language is almost a professional necessity nowadays. But I think you should
really become a good programmer first (and Eu is ideal for that), and tackle
VB only when you have a sound theoretical basis and some experience. Bone up
on objects, properties and methods, OOP, client-server apps and SQL, and
only then will VB be actually more useful to you than Eu. Maybe. Or maybe
you'll really get the hang of it and dive directly into Visual C or Java.
But go slowly and surely, don't miss a step.
And please keep on asking away.
Gerardo
P.D.
But if you really must know ... This is something I found at
http://packetstorm.securify.com/unix-humor/chickencrossroad.html. Go there
and read the whole thing.
How did the chicken cross the road?
VB Chicken: USHighways!TheRoad.cross (aChicken)
Of course, you may be conforted by the thought that
Assembler Chicken: First it builds the road ...
Query: has anybody thought how the Euphoria chicken crosses the road?
geb
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6. Re: Whitch is better?
>Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
>Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
They are two entirely different languages. Both are awesome in their own
respects. VB 5 and above compiles to native code and uses the same compiler
as VC++, and is much faster than it used to be. VB is well suited for 2D and
3D games, especially if you use the DX SDK. Many great 3D game engines like
Truevision have been written in VB. VB is also good for apps.
Unfortunately VB is a resource hog, and having to distribute the runtimes is
a major pain as well.
In programming, you have to find the right language to meet the task before
you.
7. Re: Whitch is better?
Sorry I agree... stupid question and sorry for anoying you all.
8. Re: Whitch is better?
but... thank you very much all who replyed. It was helpful.
9. Re: Whitch is better?
To R.W.D. (and anyone interested):
----- Original Message -----
From: R. W. D. <filexfer3 at JUNO.COM>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Whitch is better?
> >Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
> >Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
>
> This looks like a seeder post...
>
> Try using both languages; then draw your own conclusion.
>
> Soliciting opinions on "which is better" just incites flame wars.
No, no. Man asked for opinion, he'll get opinion. Mine, yours, anybody's. No
flamers need apply.
"Draw your own conclusion" is excellent advice, but, speaking for myself, I
only felt qualified to produce an opinion about, say VB, after many, many
hours hacking away, reading manuals and help files, testing the limits of
the language, comparing performances, etc. etc.
Most things you actually need to know (especially if the guy's deciding
whether to spend some valuable time or money on it), you won't find on the
blurb. It may be buried in small print in page 789, or you may need the SDK,
or something. For example, what are the memory requirements for Internet
Explorer 4.0? It needs 8 MB RAM, says so right on the label. Well, it ain't
so. It needs 8 MB to work, but it needs 12 MB to install. It flatly refused
to install in an old 486 I use for light work. What if I had paid for it?
For many years now I've been asking for and getting advice, good and bad,
relevant and irrelevant. VB is good, VB is bad, VB is a monster, VB is the
eighth wonder of the world. Scott will eventually have to decide for
himself, we can't do that for him. But do you want him to, just on
Microsoft's say-so? How many man/years, woman/years and/or alien/years do we
add up between the lot of us? Several hundred, at a minimum.
I think Scott's right to ask.
Thank you.
Gerardo
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10. Re: Whitch is better?
no, I haven't programmed anything in euphoria yet, but the thing I
liked(like?) about VB is the widgets toolbar for using buttons etc.. I
haven't had a chance to check out any of the euphoria IDE's yet either. any
suggestions for DOS.?
I tried to hunt down an inexpensive VBDOS (QB7.0 with widgets).since it is
not supported anymore it is hard to find.
(opinions........everybodies got one)
byE
Mike
Swayze
mswayze at truswood.com
kswayze at bellsouth.net
<8-{b>
...
> > >Whitch is a better and easier to create programs with just curius...
> > >Visual Basic 5.0 or Euphoria? plz respond anyone who can.
....
> "Draw your own conclusion" is excellent advice, but, speaking for myself,
I
> only felt qualified to produce an opinion about, say VB, after many, many
> hours hacking away, reading manuals and help files, testing the limits of
> the language, comparing performances, etc. etc.
..
> For many years now I've been asking for and getting advice, good and bad,
> relevant and irrelevant. VB is good, VB is bad, VB is a monster, VB is the
> eighth wonder of the world. Scott will eventually have to decide for
> himself, we can't do that for him. But do you want him to, just on
> Microsoft's say-so? How many man/years, woman/years and/or alien/years do
we
> add up between the lot of us? Several hundred, at a minimum.
>
> I think Scott's right to ask.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Gerardo
11. Re: Whitch is better?
On 27 Sep 2000, at 1:54, gebrandariz wrote:
> P.D.
> But if you really must know ... This is something I found at
> http://packetstorm.securify.com/unix-humor/chickencrossroad.html. Go there
> and read the whole thing.
>
> How did the chicken cross the road?
>
> VB Chicken: USHighways!TheRoad.cross (aChicken)
>
> Of course, you may be conforted by the thought that
>
> Assembler Chicken: First it builds the road ...
>
>
> Query: has anybody thought how the Euphoria chicken crosses the road?
sequentially?
Kat
12. Re: Whitch is better?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Scott_Husen wrote:
> Sorry I agree... stupid question and sorry for anoying you all.
I don't think it was a stupid question at all. Even so, it's hard to answer,
because "which is best?" depends mostly on what you're trying to accomplish.
Just as an example, I write customized POS, order tracking, and billing
programs, and have, over the years, written these in BASIC, Pascal,
COBOL, DBase, VB, Delphi, and Euphoria (and others I won't mention)
VB is easy to use, but just about the time you add enough functionality to
so that your program is usable in the real-world, VB becomes huge and slow.
Distributing programs with all the VB files is a major hassle.
Delphi used to be better than VB, and even though it is faster,
it too has become huge, and the later versions crash far too
often for my taste.
Pascal compiles to small, easily distributed exe's, but it is pretty ancient
and therefore limited in what it can do.
Since my apps don't depend upon internet connectivity or other such things
that are missing from Euphoria, I've been using it for most new apps for over
a year, with zero problems. Euphoria binds to a small, easy to e-mail exe, and
it's very stable. I've had no reports of lost data whatsoever.
Regards,
Irv
13. Re: Whitch is better?
> From: gebrandariz
<snip>
> Euphoria is simple (yes, this is simple, wait till you chance
> into C++ or
> asm), text-based (that is, you write it, debug it, etc. with a purely
> text-based editor), and sequential (even if you can write
> procedures like
> subroutines and functions, you have to invoke them at your
> own discretion).
But it's not necessarily text-based or sequential.
> Basic used to be like that, <snip> [but] it is based on a graphical
interface (you
> design "forms"
> or "screens" full of text, pictures and buttons) and it is
> intended to be
> event-driven (or, it does mostly nothing until the user
> enters text, clicks
> on a button, etc.).
In short, it's meant for designing windows programs. Although there's no
DOS analog in Eu (yet--how long before someone creates an IDE for Jiri's
widgets?), there is certainly win32lib, and Judith Evans' ne David Cuny's
IDE for it. It really does have a VB feel about it. If anyone here hasn't
yet, but is interested in programming in windows, start with that. And it's
all pure Eu. Unless you're writing a highly graphical game or doing some
serious number crunching, there's plenty of speed for anything you're trying
to do. And this might not be such a problem once we figure out the
translator.
The nice thing about Eu is that we now have some higher level development
tools (OOP, win32lib, widgets, etc), but you can still get into the guts of
everything as much as you'd like. And Eu will happily work in the console
for simple things. I've used it tons for little jobs like cleaning up data
to put into a database. In fact, I use it every day to convert some
gibberish that a customer sends over electronically in X12 form to something
that's legible to a human. And it's _fast_.
That said, I still use VB (mainly VBA, really). It has some neat features,
but I always find myself wishing I had as much flexibility in data handling
as in Eu.
Matt Lewis
