1. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
jc at cknet.net wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm new to euphoria and just wondering how big of a 'movement' Euphoria
> is?
I'd say it's kinda big
> Is it the next VB? Is it growing, static, best thing since sliced bread,
> or
> sliced bread? Kinda of philosophy questions here.
The next VB? Don't even SAY that! Sure, it's a great language that's
developing relatively fast, but C and C++ will always be the most
used programming languages, unless the Euphoria translater produces
cleaner code. Maybe I could transfer my brain patterns to a Eu program
to make a more efficient translator(if only i knew how to get
colors in ncurses...)
2. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
> VB?
> Well...
> It's about half the size of the QBasic community...
> And that's *bad*...
QBasic has been around for ages, it's an antique..
EU is still an infant in comparison..
>
> Eu is more of a toy language for hobbiests...
It's certainly not a toy, but definitely needs some refinement..
IMO, as far as any interpretter I have seen, EU is definitely the best
there is..
I like the fact that it is so compact, but in the opposite, that means a
lack of a lot of *features*, but most everything can be done with it..
those features can be incorporated if you choose to code them..
Some languages give you everything that your heart could desire, but
they also take forever and a day to learn to use, and more often than
not, that means you never end up using them, also means if and when you
do use them, it's that much harder to get it right..
I have VB, and if I'm not trying to code a GUI app, which I never do,
then I never use it.. hence it sits on my shelf..
The only real drawback to EU is the lack of userbase, which would
provide a broader spectrum of libraries that I wouldn't have to code..
Chris
3. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
Hey there,
Travis Beaty wrote:
> Good grief, Leviathan. You do know how to make a man feel older than
> the
> hills, don't you? Gee, thanks, buddy.
>
> LOL 
>
> Oh, for the good old days of the TRS-80, the Apple //c, and 6502 ASM.
>
> Happy Hunting,
>
> Travis Beaty (Age 31)
> Claude, Texas.
>
I had (have) a TRS-80 and designed a motherboard about
4 x 6 inches that could do everything the TRS-80 could
do, by connecting it to the parallel port and uploading
programs. The heart of it was also a Z80 cpu (hee hee).
Back then the big argument was "large instruction set
and slower speed" vs "small instruction set and faster speed".
Today we seem to have both?
Since then Zilog came out with faster cpu's along the
same lines as the Z80 (Z180,Z380)but that technology certainly isnt
in vogue anymore, at least for PC's that i know of.
I seriously doubt if you could ever use Euphoria with one
of those things without major changes.
Interesting thing though, some of the TI engineering calculators
have a Z80 based embedded processor! The max speed really
hurts them though, being something like 33MHz with 16bit.
The 32 bit cpu model goes up to a whopping 18MHz (hee hee).
Dont know what the heck im going to do with that old thing now
either. Oh, wait i know, i might go fishing this summer
a few times, and i could use another boat anchor, hmmm.
Think it will sink?
--Al
4. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
Well (creek) I rmember having (cough) a TI-99/4A but couldn't afforde a
disk drive because of (wheese) the need to buy that dang expantion box.
Then I got a C-64 and thought I was in clover with 64k ram (half used by
the os [humm sonds like todays pc's]) and a DOUBLE sided floppy disk
that just pluged in. Then I got a 286-12mhz w/1 megv of ram and a i30 mb
hd, WOW! Then I tryed to start it......... WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU HAVE TO
INSTALL AN OS!!!!!!! Who's idea was this anyway?????? I got a computer
with no brains because I didn't ASK for an os!!!!!!!! Good greaf.
Hay where'd I leave my geritol?
Alvin (35)
Andy Cranston wrote:
> At 05:58 AM 3/21/01 -0800, you wrote:
> >> Oh, for the good old days of the TRS-80, the Apple //c, and 6502
> >> ASM.
> >>
> >Agreed!
>
> Agreed a second time!!
>
> I learnt Z80 machine code on a Sinclair ZX81 and 6502 machine code on a
> BBC
> Model B. BASIC on both. Now who (probably just in the UK but you never
> know) remembers the Jupiter Ace? It was an odd one at the time because
> instead of running a dialect of BASIC like most micro computers it's
> native
> high level language was FORTH. Now that takes me back ... to about 1982
> or
> thereabouts :-]
>
> Gamers preferred the Atari 400, Atari 800, Vic 20 (fore runner to the
> Commodore 64) and even the Dragon 32. All in the days before hard disks
> or
> even floppy drives were "affordable" items. You "saved" your programs
> onto
> audio tape using a standard tape recorder. That was an art in itself!!!
> Getting the volume level and tone (bass/treble) just right was a never
> ending process of trail and error.
>
> I don't know these ``kids'' just don't know there born what with all the
> RAM, disk drives, graphics modes, sound cards, internet etc. :-] (big
> smiles)
>
> In my day you had to wait 5 minutes for BASIC to boot of the audio tape
> before you could write your first line of code! Still it meant you
> could
> have great "fun" hacking the tape to swap the BASIC commands "RUN" and
> "NEW" around (evil grin).
>
> On a more serious note if anyone is wondering what to do with their old
> computer kit (and we are talking 15 to 20 years plus) then I'd recommend
> hanging on to it. Mint condition kit will, I think, be worth a bit of
> cash
> in the "soon to happen" computer antique marketplace. Dont forget the
> software of the time that goes with it!
>
> Regards,
>
> Andy Cranston.
>
>
>
400 mhz Celeron $100
256 megs ram $200
13 gigabyte hard drive $300
Geting the OS to work priceless
5. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
Irv Mullins wrote:
> Not really. It was printed in Electronic Design around 1976. The
> schematic
> takes up the top third of the page (about 3 1/2 x 7") - anybody want a
> copy :)
Yah. If you got a scanner I'd like to show it to my ham radio club.
> However, the 1802 processor used in the ELF is radiation hardened,
> so there are a couple, still working, AFAIK, in the Voyager spacecraft,
> about a zillion miles from earth by now.
I remember reading about the mars rover and the 16 bit bus it has
thinking "you mean they spent hundreds of millions on this thing and
only put a #@%&ing 286 on it?"
Alvin
400 mhz Celeron $100
256 megs ram $200
13 gigabyte hard drive $300
Geting the OS to work priceless
6. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
On 22 Mar 2001, at 15:37, Alvin Koffman wrote:
> I remember reading about the mars rover and the 16 bit bus it has
> thinking "you mean they spent hundreds of millions on this thing and
> only put a #@%&ing 286 on it?"
Yup, that's cause the lines on the cpu were wide enough to absorb gamma
radiation and still function. After the 286, line width and spacing shrank,
insulators got thinner, and the radiation was able to knock enough electrons
around to cause problems. There is a NASA brief floating around on this
somewhere. I think i remember the Hubble telescope used an 8086 at the
beginning, and was upgraded to a 286. I wouldn't be surprised if the shuttle
uses only 286's too.
Kat
7. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
That's all those sattelites need..
I should know, as the first assignement newbies had
down at L&H was to design a sattelite wich would be
launched in 2012 (well, the winning design
actually)...
So I know what I'm talking about.
The CPU has to do a given set of core functions, if
the CPU is fast enough for those functions, that's
enough.
The thing it must do is always the same, and upgrading
some sattelites to faster CPUs will destroy the entire
system.
Mike The Spike
--- Kat <gertie at PELL.NET> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 22 Mar 2001, at 15:37, Alvin Koffman wrote:
>
> > I remember reading about the mars rover and the 16
> bit bus it has
> > thinking "you mean they spent hundreds of millions
> on this thing and
> > only put a #@%&ing 286 on it?"
>
> Yup, that's cause the lines on the cpu were wide
> enough to absorb gamma
> radiation and still function. After the 286, line
> width and spacing shrank,
> insulators got thinner, and the radiation was able
> to knock enough electrons
> around to cause problems. There is a NASA brief
> floating around on this
> somewhere. I think i remember the Hubble telescope
> used an 8086 at the
> beginning, and was upgraded to a 286. I wouldn't be
> surprised if the shuttle
> uses only 286's too.
>
> Kat
>
>
>
>
8. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
At 03:52 PM 3/22/01 -0800, you wrote:
>On 22 Mar 2001, at 15:37, Alvin Koffman wrote:
>
>> I remember reading about the mars rover and the 16 bit bus it has
>> thinking "you mean they spent hundreds of millions on this thing and
>> only put a #@%&ing 286 on it?"
>
>Yup, that's cause the lines on the cpu were wide enough to absorb gamma
>radiation and still function. After the 286, line width and spacing shrank,
>insulators got thinner, and the radiation was able to knock enough electrons
>around to cause problems. There is a NASA brief floating around on this
>somewhere. I think i remember the Hubble telescope used an 8086 at the
>beginning, and was upgraded to a 286. I wouldn't be surprised if the shuttle
>uses only 286's too.
>
>Kat
Sometimes when you really do not want something to go wrong it is safer to
use a technology that has been proven with two key factors:
Time
and:
Wide usage
Time means the technology has been around a while and is (hopefully)
trusted to a certain extent. Yes "trusted" is an emotive term.
Wide usage means more than a few people and/or groups have had a fiddle
with it and (hopefully) gotton most/some of the bugs out. In the last
sentence "more than a few" is a vague statement.
What it boils down to is how much confidence can you put in human crafted
hardware and software. A yes or no answer is meaningless. As is an "X"
percent certainty answer. I'm reminded of two "case in points".
The first is that near the Year 2000 bug to combat fears of aircraft safety
all software control managers of a "certain international airline" were
required to be airborne on flights over the millenium. Yep at midnight.
The second is an older non-IT issue with bomb disposal in the UK. The chap
in charge of procedures for bomb disposal had a new theory on how to
diffuse the latest UXB (UneXploded Bomb). Rather than pass the instruction
down the line he insisted he diffused the first half dozen himself. Now
why don't they make managers like that anymore :-]
Conclusion? Features are nice - stability is perfection. YMMV
Andy.
9. RE: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by Alvin Koffman <alvin_ka9qlq at yahoo.com>
Mar 22, 2001
-
Last edited Mar 23, 2001
Andy Cranston wrote:
> Sometimes when you really do not want something to go wrong it is safer
> to
> use a technology that has been proven with two key factors:
>
> Time
>
> and:
>
> Wide usage
>
Ya that's kinda the lodgic for keeping my '83 Dodge van fixed up over
geting one with sensors and electronic moduels that ether work or don't
while my van will go chug chug [BANG] but always get me home.
400 mhz Celeron $100
256 megs ram $200
13 gigabyte hard drive $300
Geting the OS to work priceless
