1. Llama
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David,
If Llama is supposed to be a platform-independant library, how will it =
know the routine for doing something in DOS, Win32, Linux, Mac, or =
whatever other platform Eu would be made to work with? Will Win32 users =
of Llama get a Win32 version, DOS users a DOS version, Linux users a =
Linux version, etc.? Just wondering. By the way, if you want my help =
emulating controls for Llama, ask me, I'd be glad to help.
Mike Hurley
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>David,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If Llama is supposed to be a=20
platform-independant library, how will it know the routine for doing =
something=20
in DOS, Win32, Linux, Mac, or whatever other platform Eu would be made =
to work=20
with? Will Win32 users of Llama get a Win32 version, DOS users a =
DOS=20
version, Linux users a Linux version, etc.? Just wondering. =
By the=20
way, if you want my help emulating controls for Llama, ask me, I'd be =
glad to=20
help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mike =
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2. Re: Llama
> Mike Hurley wrote:
>
> If Llama is supposed to be a platform-independant library, how will it
> know the routine for doing something in DOS, Win32, Linux, Mac, or
> whatever other platform Eu would be made to work with? Will Win32
> users of Llama get a Win32 version, DOS users a DOS version, Linux
> users a Linux version, etc.?
How about LLlama(Linux), MALlama (Mac), WILlama (Win32) and DollyLlama
(Dos). Just kidding... C K Lester asked about modules, I was hoping
David would make the main Llama file portable, and the include files for
the controls etc... would be different for the different platforms.
Then my program would only have to include llama.ew to use the library.
In other words the .e or .ew files that Llama includes would be the
files that varied from platform to platform, of course that could be
David's intention already.
Later,
--
+ + + Rev. Ferlin Scarborough - Centreville, Alabama - USA
http://sites.netscape.net/fscarborough/homepage
MailTo:ferlin at sandw.net
MailTo:ferlin at email.com
MailTo:fscarborough at netscape.net
3. Llama
- Posted by Nuno Barros <nuno.barros at IP.PT>
Apr 12, 1999
-
Last edited Apr 13, 1999
Just to wish you David, good luck in this project...
I hope you manage to translate well Win32Lib features to Llama...
and if possible with CreateCompatibleDC, CreateCompatibleBitmap, SelectObject,
BitBlt and DeleteObject GDI32.dll functions added ;)
Best of wishes,
Nuno
--
N u n o B a r r o s [ W e b D e s i g n e r ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ m a i l ] nuno.barros at ip.pt [ i c q ] 6 4 4 8 3 8 8
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Webdesign Portfolio ] http://nuno.homepage.nu
[ e.topia ] -in construction- http://etopia.homepage.nu
[ Chaos Squad ] http://gollop.homepage.nu
[ L I M B O ] http://ip.pt/~ip232283/limbo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Re: Llama
Nuno Barros wrote:
> I hope you manage to translate well Win32Lib
> features to Llama...
So far, I haven't run into any major problems. For the most part, Llama
should be backwards compatible with Win32Lib.
> and if possible with CreateCompatibleDC,
> CreateCompatibleBitmap, SelectObject,
> BitBlt and DeleteObject GDI32.dll functions added ;)
The SelectObject/DeleteObject makes the GDI part the most complex. As with
Win32Lib, I'll try to hide the resource allocation/deallocation so it
happens automatically.
-- David Cuny
5. Re: Llama
Cuny, David wrote:
> > and if possible with CreateCompatibleDC,
> > CreateCompatibleBitmap, SelectObject,
> > BitBlt and DeleteObject GDI32.dll functions added ;)
>
> The SelectObject/DeleteObject makes the GDI part the most complex. As with
> Win32Lib, I'll try to hide the resource allocation/deallocation so it
> happens automatically.
>
:) great! and about the other functions? do you think is hard to add?
these bitmap gdi functions would be a great addition to all WinEuphoria users
that want to do real cool windows games! I included!
BTW: Llama is growing fast in only 5 days! :)
--
N u n o B a r r o s [ W e b D e s i g n e r ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ m a i l ] nuno.barros at ip.pt [ i c q ] 6 4 4 8 3 8 8
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Webdesign Portfolio ] http://nuno.homepage.nu
[ e.topia ] -in construction- http://etopia.homepage.nu
[ Chaos Squad ] http://gollop.homepage.nu
[ L I M B O ] http://ip.pt/~ip232283/limbo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Re: Llama
Nuno Barros wrote:
>> The SelectObject/DeleteObject makes the GDI part the most complex. As
with
>> Win32Lib, I'll try to hide the resource allocation/deallocation so it
>> happens automatically.
>
>:) great! and about the other functions? do you think is hard to add?
> these bitmap gdi functions would be a great addition to all WinEuphoria
users
>that want to do real cool windows games! I included!
The functions are all easy to add. You could stick them into Win32Lib, if
you wanted. In fact, Win32Lib already uses BitBlt (in drawBitmap),
SelectObject, DeleteObject, and quite a few other GDI routines. But there
are a lot of bitmap functions that are still not implemented.
After the beta release, I expect other people to be adding a lot of features
to Llama. Unlike Win32Lib/Dos32Lib, Llama is relatively simple to extend.
The graphics class can either be extended by extending the existing Canvas
class, or by extending it with other classes.
And, unlike Win32Lib, you can even extend an existing class by patching it
from an include file, so you can add features to a class *without* altering
that class, or just replace a class library with another one. This should be
especially helpful for Dos32Lib, where people like Patrick Quist can offer
better replacement classes for the grotty set that will come with it.
I'm a bit leery about games at this point, though. Llama uses a lot
late-binding, which is not optimized. Specifically, most method calls are
not resolved until they are run. And the routine_id mechanism adds a bit of
overhead. So I fear the *initial* version of Llama might be a bit sluggish
when it comes to graphics, although there are a number of optimizations I
have in mind to help.
On the other hand, I might be pleasantly suprised.
> BTW: Llama is growing fast in only 5 days! :)
Yeah, but I'm in a few days I'm going on vacation until May to make up for
that. 
-- David Cuny
7. Re: Llama
At 08:30 AM 4/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>The functions are all easy to add.
That's easy for you to say. heh. Actually, I've not looked into much
Windows programming (at any great depth)... so I guess I should since I've
got some killer apps in mind.
>After the beta release, I expect other people to be adding a lot of features
>to Llama. Unlike Win32Lib/Dos32Lib, Llama is relatively simple to extend.
>The graphics class can either be extended by extending the existing Canvas
>class, or by extending it with other classes.
So how are we going to be sure that we've got one flavor of Llama, as
opposed to everybody's adding their own stuff or even modifying standard stuff?
>> BTW: Llama is growing fast in only 5 days! :)
>
>Yeah, but I'm in a few days I'm going on vacation until May to make up for
>that.
>
>-- David Cuny
You better take your laptop and wireless modem!!! hahaha
-ck
8. Re: Llama
C. K. Lester wrote:
> So how are we going to be sure that we've got one
> flavor of Llama, as opposed to everybody's adding
> their own stuff or even modifying standard stuff?
According to the "bazaar" method of coding, it's best to let the market
decide on the winner. As I mentioned, I'm not *quite* ready to open the code
to the "bazaar".
I think that contributions will fall into the following categories:
1. Portable native classes. These are the base classes that are supplied
with Llama that implement native controls and windows. Ports on other
platforms will be expected to support this set of widgets. I imagine that
I'll be maintaining the "official" portable release.
2. Non-portable native classes. These are controls that are not supported on
other platforms, such as OpenGL graphics, sound support, and DDE. These I
would keep out of the "portable" release, but are probably going to be
essential to stuff like games in Llama.
3. Portable emulated classes. These are non-native controls (such as a Clock
class, or Dos32 controls) that is coded using calls to the User API. These
controls should be portable to any platform, since the consist entirely of
calls to the portable native classes.
It's certainly feasible that someone could take Llama and build their own
classes that don't follow the API that I've set out. That's fine with me.
But I don't think that Llama is going to be that far off the mark.
> You better take your laptop and wireless modem!!! hahaha
I'm sure Jiri will appreciate a break from all this Win32 drivel (although a
Dos32 port of Llama is planned).
-- David Cuny
9. Llama
For those intensely curious, I've put together a page for Llama at:
htpp://www.lanset.com/dcuny/llama.htm
You can down the current Win32 version, which is fairly minimal. I hope to
have the Linux (GTK+) version posted there in a few days.
Thanks!
-- David Cuny
