OpenEuphoria

2. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Greg Haberek <ghaberek at gmail.com> Nov 29, 2004
• 514 views
• Last edited Nov 30, 2004

> Back in the 80's an 90's I did a lot of programming on Commodore 128, Amiga
> 500, and PC. All was done in Basic, MC or assembler.

I originally got me feet wet in programming on my uncle's Commodore
64. He has one of his C64s interfaced into an electronic dart board
(some cheap-o board) with custom software, all because he couldn't
find a dart board that would play cricket.  :)
 
> Now after some years I want to get back into programming again, but this time
> I want to find the optimal language, that which offers the most possibilities. I
> was first thinking of C++ which appears what the Pro's are using, but then I came
> across Euphoria and noticed all the alledged advantages to C++. So Im thinking of
> maybe trying that instead.
> 
> My question is however, can you do the exact same things with Euphoria that
> you can with C++?

With open_dll(), define_c_func(), define_c_proc(), c_func() and
c_proc(), we are able to use any function in any C dll.  A couple
people have even written libraries to use C++ dlls with all their
object-oriented goodness. With Win32Lib and other similar libraries,
we're able to put together a Windows GUI in a matter of seconds, with
only a few sparse lines of code.

Take this for example:

-- simple Win32Lib demo
include Win32Lib.ew

-- create a window with the title "Win32Lib Demo" with no parent,
-- default positioning, a size of 320x240 and no style flags.
constant MyWin = create( Window, "Win32Lib Demo", 0, Default, Default,
320, 240, 0 )

-- run the main loop, opening MyWin as a normal window
-- (as opposed to Maximized or Minimized)
WinMain( MyWin, Normal )

> And how about Binder and Translator, will you need both or just one of them?
> And which C++ compiler would you recommend (freeware or commercial)

Personally, I like the Translator. I don't know why. Both allow you to
package your app for easy distribution. The Binder allows for full
error information when your app crashes, since it is still running
Euphoria code (or IL - Intermediate Language). I guess I like the
'bragging right' that come with the Translator. How many other people
say that they can write and develop a program in a short period of
time with their favorite language, then translate it to C, which
everyone uses and understands, and is known for its speed?

I use Borland's compiler. It works great. I've had no issues with it,
and it compiles very fast. I guess there is an issue with console apps
requiring two keystrokes at the  "Press Enter..."  prompt, but that
hasn't come up for me, since I typically use Euphoria for Windows
apps.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with Euphoria. There are some
people leaving due to personal differences with Robert Craig, which I
understand. Some people just don't get along with others. It is
unfortunate that they are leaving, they will be missed, and their work
will always be appreciated.

HTH,
~Greg

4. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Greg Haberek <ghaberek at gmail.com> Nov 30, 2004
• 508 views

> Sounds very good. Where do you find documentation for using the C libraries?

Here's a link to the Win32 API help file. The Borland link in the
Archive keeps going down, so I put it up on my site.

http://www.merkur.000k2.com/win32.zip

The Include directory with Borland has all the .h files you'll ever
need for Windows C development. Its just a matter of reading it and
determinig the values you need. Also, look in the Archive for "Win32
API" or such, there's a lot of libraries the wrap the entire Windows
API so you don't have to type everything manually.

> I have an over ten year old Borland C++ ( v4.something I think) which I bought
> used once. Will that do, or do you think it's too old? If not, will there be any
> advantages in using a newer version anyway?

Borland 5.5 is free. It works great. Its what Rob uses to test
compatibility with Borland. Get it.

> OK. Will this affect the future development of the language?

Not really. There will always be people maintaining something. I've
taken over xControls by Don Phillips (v2.0 coming soon!). Someone will
take over Win32Lib when Derek leaves. Heck, I just found out that
Chris Bensler was the original owner of the EUforum, not Robert Craig.

~Greg

6. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Greg Haberek <ghaberek at gmail.com> Nov 30, 2004
• 522 views

> OK, just wanted to make sure that this language has some kind of future,
> before I dig into it. Do you know approximately how many people that are using
> it?

I took this from the Topica site:

    List Name:  Euphoria Programming Language (EUforum) 
    Purpose:  Discussions concerning the Euphoria programming language. 
    Website URL:  http://www.RapidEuphoria.com 
    List Type:  Moderated discussion 
    Subscription:  Does not require owner approval 
    Archive:  Readable by anyone 
    Created:  Apr 19, 2000 
    Owners:  Chris Bensler, Owner 2, Junko C. Miura, Owner 4, Al Getz,
Robert     Craig
To Join:  Subscribe here, or send an email to EUforum-subscribe at
    topica.com
    To Post:  Send mail to 'EUforum at topica.com' 
    Stats:  464 subscribers / 22 messages per day 
    Categories:  Computers & Internet  |  Programming Languages
 
So give or take a few people who use Euphoria that aren't on the list,
and account for those who forgot to unsubscribe, I'd say roughly 400
*active* users.

~Greg

8. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by "Unkmar" <L3Euphoria at bellsouth.net> Nov 30, 2004
• 512 views
• Last edited Dec 01, 2004

[SNIP]

>    Stats:  464 subscribers / 22 messages per day 
>    Categories:  Computers & Internet  |  Programming Languages
> 
> So give or take a few people who use Euphoria that aren't on the list,
> and account for those who forgot to unsubscribe, I'd say roughly 400
> *active* users.
> 
> ~Greg

Wow, that's depressing.

    unkmar

10. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by cklester <cklester at yahoo.com> Nov 30, 2004
• 526 views
• Last edited Dec 01, 2004

D L wrote:

> I have looked at many languages (Perl, Python, Oz, VB, Ruby, ...) but only
> Euphoria
> and lately Rebol (it is incredibly easy to use) keep holding my attention.
> Good luck in your search.

I was looking at Ruby again, and I really like it; then I'm reminded of
iterators, 0-based indexing, you can't create executables without
jumping through a hoop, etc. The only other language that interested me
was REBOL, which I haven't thoroughly examined just yet but liked what I
initially saw.

-=ck
"Programming in a state of EUPHORIA."
http://www.cklester.com/euphoria/

12. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Rich <ra at zantra.dk> Nov 30, 2004
• 521 views
• Last edited Dec 01, 2004

Greg Haberek wrote:
> 
> > OK, just wanted to make sure that this language has some kind of future,
> > before I dig into it.
> Do you know approximately how many people that are using it?</font></i>
> 
> I took this from the Topica site:
> 
>     List Name:  Euphoria Programming Language (EUforum) 
>     Purpose:  Discussions concerning the Euphoria programming language. 
>     Website URL:  <a
>     href="http://www.RapidEuphoria.com">http://www.RapidEuphoria.com</a>
>     List Type:  Moderated discussion 
>     Subscription:  Does not require owner approval 
>     Archive:  Readable by anyone 
>     Created:  Apr 19, 2000 
>     Owners:  Chris Bensler, Owner 2, Junko C. Miura, Owner 4, Al Getz,
> Robert     Craig
>     To Join:  Subscribe here, or send an email to EUforum-subscribe at
>     topica.com
>     To Post:  Send mail to 'EUforum at topica.com' 
>     Stats:  464 subscribers / 22 messages per day 
>     Categories:  Computers & Internet  |  Programming Languages
>  
> So give or take a few people who use Euphoria that aren't on the list,
> and account for those who forgot to unsubscribe, I'd say roughly 400
> *active* users.

Thanks for the info. I thought there were more, considering the large number of
countries listed. But who cares, if the thing works. It guess it would speed up
development with more users though - a visual editor wouldn't be nice for
example, but I assume that would take quite a lot of work. Have anyone plans in
direction?

Rich

14. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Rich <ra at zantra.dk> Nov 30, 2004
• 534 views
• Last edited Dec 01, 2004

D L wrote:
> 
> Rich wrote:
> 
> > OK, just wanted to make sure that this language has some kind of future,
> > before I dig
> > into it. Do you know approximately how many people that are using it? 
> 
> I asked myself the same question after reading all the debates about the
> language and
> seeing some knowledgeable users jump ship.
> The following link claims to give an indication of the popularity of
> programming languages
> :
> <a
> href="http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm">http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm</a>

Thanks. As expected, C is on top.
 

> IMO the question is how does Euphoria fit your needs, but, it is granted that
> a lot
> of effort and time is required to learn a language and one does not want it to
> go to
> waste just because the language itself is going to slide into oblivion in the
> future.
> It was Jonas that "introduced" me to Euphoria through his programs since I was
> looking
> for ways to access the data on iSeries machines, which I have used for many
> years.
> Later Win32lib and IDE sparkled in my eyes.
> The point here being, it is not only the language that matters but the tools
> and user
> forum(s) available around it.

Yes, with no big commercial developers of the language, the community becomes
important of course.


> I have looked at many languages (Perl, Python, Oz, VB, Ruby, ...) but only
> Euphoria
> and lately Rebol (it is incredibly easy to use) keep holding my attention.
> Good luck in your search.

Thanks. It's the simplicity that attracts me too. Simple is good, many thing in
this world are far more complicated than they neeed be.

What can you do with Rebol - is it an allround language, or does it have more
specific uses?

Rich

16. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Patrick Barnes <mrtrick at gmail.com> Dec 01, 2004
• 512 views

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:06:10 -0800, Rich <guest at rapideuphoria.com> wrote:
> > There is a visual editor - Judith's IDE  (look in the archives)
> 
> Wow, cool. Looks really good. Think I'll bet my first $3 on that one! ;)

Bet? 
Don't you want to know the odds first?

-- 
MrTrick

18. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Marc Giao <giao at sympatico.ca> Dec 01, 2004
• 518 views

Rich wrote:
> 
> Greg Haberek wrote:
> > 
Snip...
> >  
> > So give or take a few people who use Euphoria that aren't on the list,
> > and account for those who forgot to unsubscribe, I'd say roughly 400
> > *active* users.
> 
> Thanks for the info. I thought there were more, considering the large number
> of countries
> listed. But who cares, if the thing works. It guess it would speed up
> development with
> more users though - a visual editor wouldn't be nice for example, but I assume
> that
> would take quite a lot of work. Have anyone plans in direction?
> 
> Rich
> 

I think we should keep in mind that, as with all other languages, the majority
of users (active, inactive, sick, dead or just plain dormant) do not subscribe
to the list/forum.

I am not privy to RDS inside information but, it would not surprise me in the
least if there were several non subscribers for every subscriber. Another
site (Basic) I frequent with some regularity, the ratio is 10 to 1.

Rob, care to pipe in :)

Regards,

Marc

20. Re: A few newbie questions

• Posted by Robert Craig <rds at RapidEuphoria.com> Dec 01, 2004
• 515 views

Marc Giao wrote:
> I think we should keep in mind that, as with all other languages, the majority
> of users (active, inactive, sick, dead or just plain dormant) do not subscribe
> to the list/forum.
> 
> I am not privy to RDS inside information but, it would not surprise me in the
> least if there were several non subscribers for every subscriber. Another
> site (Basic) I frequent with some regularity, the ratio is 10 to 1.
> 
> Rob, care to pipe in :)

Ignore the previous message. My finger slipped. 

I don't know what the ratio is.
I do know that most people who register are not on this list,
and I get lots of enquiries from people who are using Euphoria
but are not on this list.

I use a lot of different software tools, and I am not
subscribed to any mailing lists or discussion forums
for those tools. I get by with the docs that are supplied,
and whatever I can find out by searching the Web.
Just because someone uses some software, doesn't mean they
want to spend half an hour every day reading about what
other people are doing with that software, assuming they
are good English speakers in the first place. Also I
believe there are a lot of lurkers, who don't subscribe, 
let alone post, but just skim through certain messages, 
and occasionally search the message archives.

Regards,
   Rob Craig
   Rapid Deployment Software
   http://www.RapidEuphoria.com