1. Jobs?
- Posted by Michael Sabal <mjs at OSA.ATT.NE.JP>
Jun 12, 1998
-
Last edited Jun 13, 1998
This question isn't directly related to Euphoria, so let me apologize. =
There are many Euphorians that write custom programs for clients =
(privately, from what I've gathered from the comments here. Forgive me =
if I've misinterpreted). How do you get into that kind of business. =
I've been trying off and on to get a job as a programmer since before I =
finished college. But I keep getting turned down because of a lack of =
corporate experience, which I can't get because I don't have it, and on =
and on. Any recommendations? I'd love to use Euphoria all day long and =
get paid for it, but that doesn't seem to be very realistic in the near =
future.
Michael J. Sabal
mjs at osa.att.ne.jp
http://home.att.ne.jp/gold/mjs/index.html
BTW: I'm going to start working on the Space Race strategy game again =
in about two weeks (vacation!!!!) So if anybody has any recommendations =
for improvement (Irv, what happened to those graphics?), please let me =
know as soon as possible. And (if you haven't guessed), I've sidelined =
the Pseudocode Translator in favor of hopefully more popular projects. =
I shall read the silence as a sigh of relief :)
2. Re: Jobs?
At 10:30 PM 6/12/98 +-900, Michael J. Sabal wrote:
>This question isn't directly related to Euphoria, so let me apologize.
There are many Euphorians that write custom programs for clients (privately,
from what I've gathered from the comments here. Forgive me if I've
misinterpreted). How do you get into that kind of business. I've been
trying off and on to get a job as a programmer since before I finished
college. But I keep getting turned down because of a lack of corporate
experience, which I can't get because I don't have it, and on and on. Any
recommendations? I'd love to use Euphoria all day long and get paid for it,
but that doesn't seem to be very realistic in the near future.
>
Likewise, I apologize for the longish reply which follows,
but it may be of interest to some on this list....
Your chances of using Euphoria on the job are slim at
this point. That's the bad news. The good news is there are
a number of ways to get into programming. I can only tell you
about the ones I know:
First, your success depends partly on where you are. Some areas
are more desperate for programmers than others.
Desperate employers will train someone who shows programming
ability. Go to microsoft's web site, look for Skills2000,
and take their aptitude test. They have suggestions for
getting free on-the-job training, as well.
Secondly, non-programming experience can be far more valuable
than programming experience. If you know how a job *should* be
done, it's not too hard to learn enough programming to implement
those methods. On the other hand, if you don't know how a job
should be done, the neatest, most structured, carefully debugged
code ever written isn't likely to be of any use. Leverage off
the experience you DO have.
Third - start small. The big software firms (where hiring is
done by "human resources" people) are a waste of time. These
folks are not trying to hire the best workers. They are busy
covering their rear ends. They won't take chances on
anybody. Besides, do you really want to sweat away your life
in a tiny windowless cubicle?
Try instead to get small jobs for small firms. Install new
computers/software. Pull network cables. Install printers,
train employees. Set up a web site. Consult on upgrades.
Do anything computer related, and CHARGE BY THE HOUR.
The customer will feel better about the deal - if he/she
isn't satisfied, they can pay you and show you the door.
Do a good job, and you will get regular work, as well as
references.
Forth - learn the buzz words. Read all the magazines and
books you can find. Learn that RAID isn't bug spray. Use
terms like ODBC, SQL, POWERBUILDER, and ORACLE in your everyday language.
Know enough to ask a pertinent question (even if you
have no idea what to do with the answer). Think database. Think network
administration.
Fifth - get out of town. In my part of the US, businesses that
happen to be more than about 1 hour's drive from a large city
can not get computer help. Consultants just aren't interested;
don't want to bother. Personally, I find that money from these businesses
spends just as well as city money.
By the way: I took a poll once while I was an employee of a large firm. Only
1 out of 10 people had *ever* gotten a desirable job
by the application/resume' route. It's not what you know, but
who you know. I have gotten very profitable work just by joining
computer users' groups. You meet people, make contacts, and
pretty soon you have people asking for your help.
Help-wanted ads: Read them, but realize that, in the US at least, a large
percentage of these ads are run strictly to avoid legal troubles.
For example: I have decided to hire my nephew Louie, but to cover
my rear end, I will run an ad, interview a few people, and decide
that Louie is the best qualified for the job. See, everything
was done properly and according to the law!
Regards, and good luck.
Irv
3. Re: Jobs?
>For example: I have decided to hire my nephew Louie, but to cover
>my rear end, I will run an ad, interview a few people, and decide
>that Louie is the best qualified for the job. See, everything
>was done properly and according to the law!
Gee Irv,
Can I interview? I make nice web pages.
Monty
4. Re: Jobs?
Irv:
Appreciate the comments on "Jobs". As you know, I'm trying to break in to the
field (and at this point am probably no more qualified than to install
software!), but I do know that I can depend on my brain; and I think that's the
key...it has never failed me in learning *anything* and in solving technical
problems, regardless of what business it was in. Contacts are invaluable; I
have found recruiting agencies to be a waste of time for someone in my situation
(for top notch programmers and executive types it might be a different
situation--I don't know).
Regards,
Frank
mountains at MINDSPRING.COM wrote:
> At 10:30 PM 6/12/98 +-900, Michael J. Sabal wrote:
> >This question isn't directly related to Euphoria, so let me apologize.
> There are many Euphorians that write custom programs for clients (privately,
> from what I've gathered from the comments here. Forgive me if I've
> misinterpreted). How do you get into that kind of business. I've been
> trying off and on to get a job as a programmer since before I finished
> college. But I keep getting turned down because of a lack of corporate
> experience, which I can't get because I don't have it, and on and on. Any
> recommendations? I'd love to use Euphoria all day long and get paid for it,
> but that doesn't seem to be very realistic in the near future.
> >
> Likewise, I apologize for the longish reply which follows,
> but it may be of interest to some on this list....
>
> Your chances of using Euphoria on the job are slim at
> this point. That's the bad news. The good news is there are
> a number of ways to get into programming. I can only tell you
> about the ones I know:
>
> First, your success depends partly on where you are. Some areas
> are more desperate for programmers than others.
>
> Desperate employers will train someone who shows programming
> ability. Go to microsoft's web site, look for Skills2000,
> and take their aptitude test. They have suggestions for
> getting free on-the-job training, as well.
>
> Secondly, non-programming experience can be far more valuable
> than programming experience. If you know how a job *should* be
> done, it's not too hard to learn enough programming to implement
> those methods. On the other hand, if you don't know how a job
> should be done, the neatest, most structured, carefully debugged
> code ever written isn't likely to be of any use. Leverage off
> the experience you DO have.
>
> Third - start small. The big software firms (where hiring is
> done by "human resources" people) are a waste of time. These
> folks are not trying to hire the best workers. They are busy
> covering their rear ends. They won't take chances on
> anybody. Besides, do you really want to sweat away your life
> in a tiny windowless cubicle?
>
> Try instead to get small jobs for small firms. Install new
> computers/software. Pull network cables. Install printers,
> train employees. Set up a web site. Consult on upgrades.
> Do anything computer related, and CHARGE BY THE HOUR.
> The customer will feel better about the deal - if he/she
> isn't satisfied, they can pay you and show you the door.
> Do a good job, and you will get regular work, as well as
> references.
>
> Forth - learn the buzz words. Read all the magazines and
> books you can find. Learn that RAID isn't bug spray. Use
> terms like ODBC, SQL, POWERBUILDER, and ORACLE in your everyday language.
> Know enough to ask a pertinent question (even if you
> have no idea what to do with the answer). Think database. Think network
> administration.
>
> Fifth - get out of town. In my part of the US, businesses that
> happen to be more than about 1 hour's drive from a large city
> can not get computer help. Consultants just aren't interested;
> don't want to bother. Personally, I find that money from these businesses
> spends just as well as city money.
>
> By the way: I took a poll once while I was an employee of a large firm. Only
> 1 out of 10 people had *ever* gotten a desirable job
> by the application/resume' route. It's not what you know, but
> who you know. I have gotten very profitable work just by joining
> computer users' groups. You meet people, make contacts, and
> pretty soon you have people asking for your help.
>
> Help-wanted ads: Read them, but realize that, in the US at least, a large
> percentage of these ads are run strictly to avoid legal troubles.
> For example: I have decided to hire my nephew Louie, but to cover
> my rear end, I will run an ad, interview a few people, and decide
> that Louie is the best qualified for the job. See, everything
> was done properly and according to the law!
>
> Regards, and good luck.
>
> Irv
5. Re: Jobs?
-----Original Message-----
De: mountains at MINDSPRING.COM <mountains at MINDSPRING.COM>
Para: EUPHORIA at cwisserver1.mcs.muohio.edu
<EUPHORIA at cwisserver1.mcs.muohio.edu>
Fecha: sábado 13 de junio de 1998 7:32
Asunto: Re: Jobs?
>Secondly, non-programming experience can be far more valuable
>than programming experience. If you know how a job *should* be
>done, it's not too hard to learn enough programming to implement
>those methods. On the other hand, if you don't know how a job
>should be done, the neatest, most structured, carefully debugged
>code ever written isn't likely to be of any use. Leverage off
>the experience you DO have.
Absolutly true! Example: I want to do a nice contability program. I don't
know nothing about contability and it's terms. Solution: I talked with a
friend who is finishing his bussiness administration career, I told him
about my ideas, and how they can benefit my users. He was so interested that
he'll do a nice market investigation and what users want to do... then I can
do a program that do what IS needed. The reserach will cover also users
interface, post-sale support and documentation layout. He plans to use these
theme for his final thesis!
>Try instead to get small jobs for small firms. Install new
>computers/software. Pull network cables. Install printers,
>train employees. Set up a web site. Consult on upgrades.
>Do anything computer related, and CHARGE BY THE HOUR.
>The customer will feel better about the deal - if he/she
>isn't satisfied, they can pay you and show you the door.
>Do a good job, and you will get regular work, as well as
>references.
Also absolutly true! I start reparing related people's PC's (virus removal,
software & hardware upgrade, etc...), they recommend me to others (I did
good work ;)... then some client aks me if I know of some nice application
to do something he's been wanting to do: voila! I say, no problem I can do
that. Your first commercial program has born. Most common request are for
small bussiness that want to control inventory and sales (point of sales).
Beside database tools (SQL, PowerBuilder, VB, etc..) investigate how you can
include "extra value" features, ie. code bars (they are really, really easy
to support!), or networking.
Regards,
Daniel Berstein
daber at pair.com
6. Re: Jobs?
Monty King wrote:
> >For example: I have decided to hire my nephew Louie, but to cover
> >my rear end, I will run an ad, interview a few people, and decide
> >that Louie is the best qualified for the job. See, everything
> >was done properly and according to the law!
>
> Gee Irv,
> Can I interview? I make nice web pages.
> Monty
Me 2! I make nice web pages. starter in HTML 4.0 and JAVA, though.
(HAIRY!)
