1. RE : Profane
>>Your posts are becoming increasingly profane.
>>It is simply unnesessary and detracts from the
>>credability of your views.
>
>Yes, I did need to look that word up.
>Did I really sound unfriendly ? I didn't mean to.
>
>I always thought you people got offended by me, because I don't much of the
>'context' that words are placed in. Some words don't have a direct negative
>meaning, but are interpretered like that, because they are often used for
>that purpose. I will state once more that I really don't mean stuff
>unfriendly......
The word "profane" refers to swearing, Ralf.
These are words that *DO* have a direct negative meaning,
regardless of their context. If you are not sure what I'm
refering to, I'll be happy to send you a list of profane
words by private mail (in context).
>You shouldn't have placed such a personal message on the list-serv
My message related directly to what is and isn't acceptable
in a public forum. Your "aw gee but I'm only a 16 year old"
excuse is simply not acceptable. You are obviously intelligent
enough to grasp the concept, and as a long time and consistant
contributor to the list you are setting a bad example to your
peers.
If you really don't want to be unfriendly, start by not
telling others on the list their hard work is rubbish (or worse).
This is offensive with or without the profanity.
As you are writing *yet another* "sorry I don't mean to
be offensive" letter, do you ever stop and think "Maybe
it's me?"
Honestly, Ralf, you have a lot of good ideas to contribute
but the way that you do it can be very off-putting.
Graeme.
"Never say in 100 words what you can say in 10"
----------------------------------------------------
2. Re: RE : Profane
>The word "profane" refers to swearing, Ralf.
What swearing ?
>These are words that *DO* have a direct negative meaning,
>regardless of their context. If you are not sure what I'm
>refering to, I'll be happy to send you a list of profane
>words by private mail (in context).
I know, all the words MTV (as the only station here in Europe) beeps
out, because they think we are incapable of handling those expression and
taking responsebility for our own actions.
Sorry, but you will never convince me, that it is a fact swearing is
wrong. I mean, except swearing that might hurt persons. Shit can not be
hurt. Christians can, so 'godd*...' (use your imagination) should not be
said, *in* their presence. I've only said 'shitty' and I did that after your
mail, so this is not what your mail was refering to.
They are words. Usually a figure of speech chosen by lower-class people,
and therefor some consider it wrong.
I am not gonna have this discussion with you and the whole beeping
country of America, wish is famous for its beeps here actually.
>>You shouldn't have placed such a personal message on the list-serv
>
>My message related directly to what is and isn't acceptable
>in a public forum. Your "aw gee but I'm only a 16 year old"
"what is and isn't acceptable in a public forum"
1) Since when do you decide what is and what isn't acceptable in a
public forum ? Sounds like censoring. Public? Freedom of speech, Freedom of
thought, should I go on?
2) Since when does some1, according to you, insulted by me, has this
person asked you to say anything about it? No matter if it was insulted or
not, it didn't insult you, nor did any1 point you out as an referee or a
correctional institution.
>excuse is simply not acceptable. You are obviously intelligent
>enough to grasp the concept, and as a long time and consistant
>contributor to the list you are setting a bad example to your
>peers.
'Bad example'. This is one of the cultural differences. Unlike in the
states, you can say whatever you want on TV or any other media here. People
have a choice, and are responsible for their own actions. Some1 doing
something because some1 else also did that, is a dangerous person and needs
serious mental help. Dangerous ? Consider this kind of person talks to a
serial killer by coincedence. Oops.
Plus, who dares to have to arrogance to claim they know what 'bad' and
'right' is for any1 anyway. All those people were fascists.
And at last, I didn't swear. Well maybe the 'shitty', but 1) that was after
your mail 2) It should be insulting to any of you if I considered any of you
not mentally capable of handling such an expression.
>If you really don't want to be unfriendly, start by not
>telling others on the list their hard work is rubbish (or worse).
>This is offensive with or without the profanity.
I never did that. However I did say stuff in the contrary of that.
Go look it up.
>As you are writing *yet another* "sorry I don't mean to
>be offensive" letter, do you ever stop and think "Maybe
>it's me?"
It *is* me, cause I am the only one with this constantly repeating problem.
But how many young Dutch boys are posting on this server ? Consider the
differences. It is a socially different culture here. There is a language
barrier. There is an age difference with most of you, and usually with those
that claim to be insulted or found a message insulting..
This doesn't mean it is nessesarily my fault. Communication and
interpretation is an effort from both sides. I have already showed willing
to prevent this kind of problems.
Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen
nieuwen at xs4all.nl
3. Re: RE : Profane
Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen wrote:
> I am not gonna have this discussion with you and the whole beeping
> country of America, wish is famous for its beeps here actually.
>
> 'Bad example'. This is one of the cultural differences. Unlike in the
> states,
Ralf,
As a point of clarification. You refer to America and the states in your
response to Graeme's message. Graeme is in Australia. Why are you taking
issue with the United States for his comments? In a previous series of
messages, I, an American, took a strong stance on supporting freedom of
expression. But when a person exercises freedom of expression, he
inherently accepts the responsibility of being accurate. If an
Australian, and I have nothing but fond regards for Australia and its
people, says something to you, perhaps it is best not to attribute it to
an American.
--
Terry Constant
constant at flash.net
4. RE : Profane
Ralf wrote:
>It *is* me, cause I am the only one with
>this constantly repeating problem. But how
>many young Dutch boys are posting on this
>server ? Consider the differences. It is
>a socially different culture here. There is
>a language barrier. There is an age
>difference with most of you, and usually
>with those that claim to be insulted or found
>a message insulting..This doesn't mean it is >
>nessesarily my fault. Communication
>and interpretation is an effort from both sides.
>I have already showed willing to
>prevent this kind of problems.
So let's see if I have this right. You're a well meaning Dutch teenager.
1. You never meant to insult anyone;
2. You never did insult anyone;
3. If someone claims they were insulted,
a. they're wrong;
b. they're old; and
c. it's not your fault.
4. You have every right to insult anyone you want; and
5. Anyone who thinks otherwise in a facist pig.
Is this correct?
-- David Cuny
5. Re: RE : Profane
- Posted by Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen <nieuwen at XS4ALL.NL>
Jun 05, 1998
-
Last edited Jun 06, 1998
David thought I ment:
>So let's see if I have this right. You're a well meaning Dutch teenager.
>
>1. You never meant to insult anyone;
>2. You never did insult anyone;
>3. If someone claims they were insulted,
> a. they're wrong;
> b. they're old; and
> c. it's not your fault.
>4. You have every right to insult anyone you want; and
>5. Anyone who thinks otherwise in a facist pig.
>Is this correct?
1 -- Yes, I never meant to insult any1
3 -- No! Greame claimed I insulted somebody else.. nobody is claiming they
were insulted. But even if some did feel insulted, would I still need to be
pointed at my fingers after I clarify I didn't mean to insult any1 ? (like
happened)
3a -- Yes! There are wrong I did not want to insult them, therefor they are
actually not. They've only interpreterd my message in a way it was not
meant. The blame of that is not theirs, no. But the conclusing that it was
meant insulting was a wrong one. It wasn't!
3b -- No! I said, this kind of problems occur more often with older people
than with younger people. This was something I noticed. I didn't say those
who feel insulted are older. In this case no one did feel insulted, or at
least didn't express himself that way. Plus, I mentioned the age difference,
because grown-ups at least have more expierence and practise with more
formal/commercial/political ways of speaking, while (at least here) young
people are much more direct.
3c -- Yes! I didn't mean it insulting. I pay attention to the English I use.
Could I do more? Could you seriously resent me for this? 'Fault' is the
wrong choice of words. The cause is off course *me*. But it might be the
otherway around if one of you were speaking alone to a group of young Dutch
boys.
2 -- Yes, At least, I would not feel insulted if I would have received such
a message. If I would have I would have never sent it.
4 -- And yes, indeed we do have the right to insult anyone. But that's
besides the matter. As people have rights, they also have responsibilities.
That would be a conflict between the two. However, the freedom of speech
was referring to the swearing-critism.
5 -- No! Any1 thinking they should decide for others what kind of influence
is healthy and what is not healthy for somebody else. (deciding what is a
good or bad example, therefor peope are not getting confronted with all
options and have less chance making that choice for themselves nor will they
be able to develop themselves individually and completely). And this *too*
was referring to swearing!
Terry Constant pointed out:
>As a point of clarification. You refer to America and the states in your
>response to Graeme's message. Graeme is in Australia. Why are you taking
>issue with the United States for his comments? In a previous series of
>messages, I, an American, took a strong stance on supporting freedom of
>expression. But when a person exercises freedom of expression, he
>inherently accepts the responsibility of being accurate. If an
>Australian, and I have nothing but fond regards for Australia and its
>people, says something to you, perhaps it is best not to attribute it to
>an American.
That was a bad assumption. True. But I just pointed out the beep-thing, to
show the cultural difference between swearing here and America, as I was
thinking Greame was from America. I do not know how the social rules in
Australia are for this matter, but I do notice Greame is against and still
want to point out, that here swearing is not censored nor is considered to
be bad example, simply because you should try to be a clone anyway, and I
support that.
Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen
nieuwen at xs4all.nl
