1. Bach - PEU
- Posted by kbochert at copper.net
Nov 21, 2002
<HTML><HEAD>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> Derek Parnell=
wrote:</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> =A0</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >Not quite=
true Karl. It was a great start to getting some=
rea=3D</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >l competetion=
into the Euphoria world.=3D20</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080">=
></FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >May one=
borrow some of your innovative ideas?</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080">=
></FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >And can you=
spare some time to help the PEU guys with their</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >envdevours?=
Your experience will be invaluable.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> =A0</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> I would be glad=
to offer suggestions, but I can not (will not) step on Robs=
intellectual property.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> =A0</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> I could offer=
some information about:</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> 1) Bach's=
implementation of classes.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> 2) Dual-stack=
expression analyzer ( A favorite of mine).</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> 3) How I would=
have enabled an external GUI debugger.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> 4) Tagged=
architecture.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> =A0</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> Karl=
Bochert</FONT></div>
2. Re: Bach - PEU
On Thursday 21 November 2002 06:42 am, Karl wrote:
> I would be glad to offer suggestions, but I can not (will not) step on
> Robs intellectual property. I could offer some information about:
> 1) Bach's implementation of classes.
> 2) Dual-stack expression analyzer ( A favorite of mine).
> 3) How I would have enabled an external GUI debugger.
> 4) Tagged architecture.
The things you added to Bach were all well thought out and useful.
I think you were handicapped by having to work within Euphoria's
limitations. Limited not only by what you are allowed to do by contract,
but by limitations in the original design of the language.
I would love to know what you think about those limitations, and whether
you think a similar language could be designed to avoid those problems.
Regards,
Irv
3. Re: Bach - PEU
- Posted by kbochert at copper.net
Nov 22, 2002
<HTML><HEAD>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:44:13=
-0500, Irv Mullins wrote:</FONT></div>
<div> </div>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> </FONT><div><FONT=
FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> ></FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >The things=
you added to Bach were all well thought out and=
useful.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >I think you=
were handicapped by having to work within=
Euphoria's</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >limitations.=
Limited not only by what you are allowed to do by</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> >contract, but=
by limitations in the original design of the=
language.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080">=
></FONT></div>
<div> </div>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> </FONT><div><FONT=
FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> I don't think that Euphoria=
really has any limitations, in the sense of having features that=
prevent the implementation of other features that I would=
like.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> It does have many=
limitations in terms of those convenience features that I expect=
from a language.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> The source code=
is somewhat difficult to deal with. Adding classes was very=
hard, but most of the other features were fairly =
straight-forward (even exceptions).</FONT></div>
<div> </div>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000080"> </FONT><div><FONT=
FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> The development of PEU holds great promise,=
but I am concerned as to whether people are underestimating the=
huge amount of time and effort needed. I expect it to wither=
away in a few months.</FONT><br></div>
<div> </div>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> </FONT><div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3>=
I looked at the PEU source code, and while I was impressed with=
it, I suspect that the scale of complete product would require a=
complete re-write, starting with a design phase. This may be=
just me, but I can't imagine writing a translator without at=
least separate symtab, scanner, parser, allocation, error=
handler, io, and runtime modules.</FONT><br></div>
<div> </div>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> </FONT><div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3>=
Karl</FONT><br></div>
<div><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D3> </FONT><br></div>
4. Re: Bach - PEU
On 22 Nov 2002, at 9:44, kbochert at copper.net wrote:
I looked at the PEU source code, and while I was impressed with it, I
suspect that the scale of complete product would require a complete re-
write, starting with a design phase. This may be just me, but I can't
imagine writing a translator without at least separate symtab, scanner,
parser, allocation, error handler, io, and runtime modules.
That's the point Karl. These "new kids on the block" are full of (good)
willing power and would be highly benefit from your experience and
skills (I wish I had a tenth of it!). Take your time and think about
it. :)
Kind regards,
-- Euler German
