1. 64 bit Eu?
AMD Athlon 64 bit computers are here - and evidently
not that expensive:
http://www.costco.com/frameset.asp?trg=product%2Easp&catid=84&subid=4369&hierid=4374&prdid=10036533&log=
I recall Rob saying he would port Euphoria to 64 bit
when there was the demand for it. So here it is Rob,
I am demanding that you port Euphoria to the AMD
Athlon 64! :) :) :) :) :)
I have a few questions...
1. Will you support the AMD 64bit cpu, or the Intell
64 bit cpu, or both?
2. Since the Linux operating system and GNU
development tools are essentially free will you port
Eu to 64 bit Linux first?
3. Will a 64 bit implementation of Eu run twice as
fast as 32bit? If not, how much of a performance
increase would you anticipate or hope to realize?
4. Beyond any improvements in "speed" what other
advantages might a 64 bit implementation of Eu have
over 32 bit Eu?
5. Since Euphoria is such a small, yet powerful
language, shouldn't it be easier to port than many
other of the more established, yet larger languages,
with which it competes?
Just Brain Storming :),
Ken Rhodes
2. Re: 64 bit Eu?
Ken Rhodes wrote:
>I recall Rob saying he would port Euphoria to 64 bit
>when there was the demand for it. So here it is Rob,
>I am demanding that you port Euphoria to the AMD
>Athlon 64! :) :) :) :) :)
>
>
I second the demand, as well as vote for an OS X port. I might... I said
"might!"... get an eMac for Christmas to play with. :)
3. Re: 64 bit Eu?
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. K. Lester" <euphoric at cklester.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: 64 bit Eu?
>
>
> Ken Rhodes wrote:
>
> >I recall Rob saying he would port Euphoria to 64 bit
> >when there was the demand for it. So here it is Rob,
> >I am demanding that you port Euphoria to the AMD
> >Athlon 64! :) :) :) :) :)
> >
> >
> I second the demand, as well as vote for an OS X port. I might... I said
> "might!"... get an eMac for Christmas to play with. :)
I vote for 64bit euphoria also, but won't that take either new compilers or
alot of assebly code, or both, he'll probably have to rewrite the entire
thing, and since most everyone that uses euphoria doesn't have a 64bit OS,
its going to be hard to test the changes and the demand might also be low?
In other words lots of work and little payoff for RDS?
Daniel Kluss
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
4. Re: 64 bit Eu?
--- Daniel Kluss <codepilot at netzero.net> wrote:
take
> either new compilers or
> alot of assebly code, or both, he'll probably have
> to rewrite the entire
> thing, and since most everyone that uses euphoria
> doesn't have a 64bit OS,
> its going to be hard to test the changes and the
> demand might also be low?
> In other words lots of work and little payoff for
> RDS?
>
> Daniel Kluss
>
If Rob cuts his teeth on Linux first I think his
investments in new development tools will be virtually
NIL. Whats the use of having a company called "Rapid
Deployment Software" unless you can deploy software
rapidly?
Also, if he lags behind all the other languages there
will be no change in the status quo. Guess he could
change the name of the company to "Rarely Deployed
Software". ;)
What I am hoping is that Rob can get out of the gate
faster than "the competition" and thereby establish a
greater presense in the community of programming
language, which would of course mean more sales in the
long run.
Ken Rhodes
5. Re: 64 bit Eu?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rhodes" <ken_rhodes30436 at yahoo.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: 64 bit Eu?
>
>
> --- Daniel Kluss <codepilot at netzero.net> wrote:
> take
> > either new compilers or
> > alot of assebly code, or both, he'll probably have
> > to rewrite the entire
> > thing, and since most everyone that uses euphoria
> > doesn't have a 64bit OS,
> > its going to be hard to test the changes and the
> > demand might also be low?
> > In other words lots of work and little payoff for
> > RDS?
> >
> > Daniel Kluss
> >
> If Rob cuts his teeth on Linux first I think his
> investments in new development tools will be virtually
> NIL. Whats the use of having a company called "Rapid
> Deployment Software" unless you can deploy software
> rapidly?
>
> Also, if he lags behind all the other languages there
> will be no change in the status quo. Guess he could
> change the name of the company to "Rarely Deployed
> Software". ;)
>
> What I am hoping is that Rob can get out of the gate
> faster than "the competition" and thereby establish a
> greater presense in the community of programming
> language, which would of course mean more sales in the
> long run.
>
> Ken Rhodes
Good IDEA the faster he gets 64bit the better it is for everybody
who uses euphoria, and everybody who doesn't YET use euphoria.
My advice is for everyone with euphoria source to help RDS
port it to 64bit, and for everyone else to make lots of suggestions
to help out. Lets get this done.
Daniel Kluss
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
6. Re: 64 bit Eu?
Microsoft will only implement pointers to data as 64bit (what I read anyway)
I dont think converting euphoria to use quads and/or 64bit pointer would be
too awfull for Robert, he's the man.
Euman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Kluss" <codepilot at netzero.net>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: 64 bit Eu?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. K. Lester" <euphoric at cklester.com>
> To: <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: 64 bit Eu?
>
>
> > Ken Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > >I recall Rob saying he would port Euphoria to 64 bit
> > >when there was the demand for it. So here it is Rob,
> > >I am demanding that you port Euphoria to the AMD
> > >Athlon 64! :) :) :) :) :)
> > >
> > >
> > I second the demand, as well as vote for an OS X port. I might... I said
> > "might!"... get an eMac for Christmas to play with. :)
>
> I vote for 64bit euphoria also, but won't that take either new compilers or
> alot of assebly code, or both, he'll probably have to rewrite the entire
> thing, and since most everyone that uses euphoria doesn't have a 64bit OS,
> its going to be hard to test the changes and the demand might also be low?
> In other words lots of work and little payoff for RDS?
>
> Daniel Kluss
>
>
> > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
> >
> >
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
7. Re: 64 bit Eu?
> 1. Will you support the AMD 64bit cpu, or the Intell
>64 bit cpu, or both?
These are *totally* different. The IA-64 (Itanium) is not binary compatible
with IA-32 (x86) and requires an emulator to run x86 executables. Of course,
if you have a compiler for the Itanium you could recompile the whole thing
and have a separate distribution. The amount of home users with Itanium
processor is probably very low atm though. The Athlon64 is just an extension
of the x86. It has legacy modes to run old code, and a new 64-bit mode with
twice as many general registers (all 64-bit), twice as many MMX registers,
among other things.
> 2. Since the Linux operating system and GNU
>development tools are essentially free will you port
>Eu to 64 bit Linux first?
Would be cheaper at least : )
> 3. Will a 64 bit implementation of Eu run twice as
>fast as 32bit? If not, how much of a performance
>increase would you anticipate or hope to realize?
Twice as fast? No. How much faster? I dunno..
As i said, the Athlon64 has twice as many general registers, which can help
if you have compiler designed for it. It also has the HyperTransport or
whatever AMD calls it (higher memory bandwidth basically).
> 4. Beyond any improvements in "speed" what other
>advantages might a 64 bit implementation of Eu have
>over 32 bit Eu?
Beats me. True 32-bit integers? That'd probably cause too much confusion
though, since it would differ from "32-bit Euphoria".
8. Re: 64 bit Eu?
I fouond this little newsbyte interesting:
"AMD=92s unique ability to utilize the x86-based
technology helps to simplify the porting of 32-bit
applications to AMD64. IBM software developers
recently ported millions of lines of code associated
with the 32-bit version of the DB2 Universal Database
software to the 64-bit product in just two days."=20
--- mic _ <stabmaster_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> > 1. Will you support the AMD 64bit cpu, or the
> Intell
> >64 bit cpu, or both?
>=20
> These are *totally* different. The IA-64 (Itanium)
> is not binary compatible=20
> with IA-32 (x86) and requires an emulator to run x86
> executables. Of course,=20
> if you have a compiler for the Itanium you could
> recompile the whole thing=20
> and have a separate distribution. The amount of home
> users with Itanium=20
> processor is probably very low atm though. The
> Athlon64 is just an extension=20
> of the x86. It has legacy modes to run old code, and
> a new 64-bit mode with=20
> twice as many general registers (all 64-bit), twice
> as many MMX registers,=20
> among other things.
>=20
>=20
> > 2. Since the Linux operating system and GNU
> >development tools are essentially free will you
> port
> >Eu to 64 bit Linux first?
>=20
> Would be cheaper at least : )
>=20
>=20
> > 3. Will a 64 bit implementation of Eu run twice
> as
> >fast as 32bit? If not, how much of a performance
> >increase would you anticipate or hope to realize?
>=20
> Twice as fast? No. How much faster? I dunno..
> As i said, the Athlon64 has twice as many general
> registers, which can help=20
> if you have compiler designed for it. It also has
> the HyperTransport or=20
> whatever AMD calls it (higher memory bandwidth
> basically).
>=20
>=20
> > 4. Beyond any improvements in "speed" what other
> >advantages might a 64 bit implementation of Eu have
> >over 32 bit Eu?
>=20
> Beats me. True 32-bit integers? That'd probably
> cause too much confusion=20
> though, since it would differ from "32-bit
> Euphoria".
>=20
>
>=20
>=20
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group.
> FREE!
>
>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
9. Re: 64 bit Eu?
Ken Rhodes wrote:
> I recall Rob saying he would port Euphoria to 64 bit
> when there was the demand for it. So here it is Rob,
> I am demanding that you port Euphoria to the AMD
> Athlon 64! :) :) :) :) :)
If it's running XP, I wonder if that's Microsoft's
standard 32-bit XP, in which case the machine is rarely
operating in 64-bit mode. MS has a 64-bit XP but I think
it only runs on Intel's 64-bit machine so far.
> I have a few questions...
>
> 1. Will you support the AMD 64bit cpu, or the Intell
> 64 bit cpu, or both?
I assume that both those machines will run today's
Euphoria as is. Eventually I would like to take
advantage of 64 bits, but I don't think the advantages
are that great in most cases. Think about all the pointers
and integers in a program suddenly expanding to 8 bytes
each instead of 4. That would waste a lot of memory
and hurt caching performance. How many people have apps
that require over 4 Gb of RAM? How many people have
integer values that need to exceed 4 Gb?
Some specialized code, e.g. graphics, might run faster
when 64 bit integers can be used instead of 32-bit.
> 2. Since the Linux operating system and GNU
> development tools are essentially free will you port
> Eu to 64 bit Linux first?
That's very likely.
> 3. Will a 64 bit implementation of Eu run twice as
> fast as 32bit? If not, how much of a performance
> increase would you anticipate or hope to realize?
I'd expect a slight performance *decrease* from the
32 to 64 bit change itself, though of course newer
processors are always cycling faster.
> 4. Beyond any improvements in "speed" what other
> advantages might a 64 bit implementation of Eu have
> over 32 bit Eu?
The big one is memory. You'd be able to access over
4Gb of RAM, assuming you had that much.
> 5. Since Euphoria is such a small, yet powerful
> language, shouldn't it be easier to port than many
> other of the more established, yet larger languages,
> with which it competes?
Yes, Euphoria should be easier to port, and Euphoria
programs should be easier to port since they don't
know much about the underlying hardware. There are lots
of C/C++ programs out there that will break badly,
because someone assumed that integers and pointers
would always be 4 bytes.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
10. Re: 64 bit Eu?
How many people does IBM employ, and how many does RDS?
TO
How many lines of code for DB2, and how many for EUPHORIA?
Mabey close to same on an average so maybe EUPHORIA-64 in two day?
Daniel Kluss
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rhodes" <ken_rhodes30436 at yahoo.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: 64 bit Eu?
>
>
> I fouond this little newsbyte interesting:
> "AMD=92s unique ability to utilize the x86-based
> technology helps to simplify the porting of 32-bit
> applications to AMD64. IBM software developers
> recently ported millions of lines of code associated
> with the 32-bit version of the DB2 Universal Database
> software to the 64-bit product in just two days."=20
>
> --- mic _ <stabmaster_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >=20
> >=20
> > > 1. Will you support the AMD 64bit cpu, or the
> > Intell
> > >64 bit cpu, or both?
> >=20
> > These are *totally* different. The IA-64 (Itanium)
> > is not binary compatible=20
> > with IA-32 (x86) and requires an emulator to run x86
> > executables. Of course,=20
> > if you have a compiler for the Itanium you could
> > recompile the whole thing=20
> > and have a separate distribution. The amount of home
> > users with Itanium=20
> > processor is probably very low atm though. The
> > Athlon64 is just an extension=20
> > of the x86. It has legacy modes to run old code, and
> > a new 64-bit mode with=20
> > twice as many general registers (all 64-bit), twice
> > as many MMX registers,=20
> > among other things.
> >=20
> >=20
> > > 2. Since the Linux operating system and GNU
> > >development tools are essentially free will you
> > port
> > >Eu to 64 bit Linux first?
> >=20
> > Would be cheaper at least : )
> >=20
> >=20
> > > 3. Will a 64 bit implementation of Eu run twice
> > as
> > >fast as 32bit? If not, how much of a performance
> > >increase would you anticipate or hope to realize?
> >=20
> > Twice as fast? No. How much faster? I dunno..
> > As i said, the Athlon64 has twice as many general
> > registers, which can help=20
> > if you have compiler designed for it. It also has
> > the HyperTransport or=20
> > whatever AMD calls it (higher memory bandwidth
> > basically).
> >=20
> >=20
> > > 4. Beyond any improvements in "speed" what other
> > >advantages might a 64 bit implementation of Eu have
> > >over 32 bit Eu?
> >=20
> > Beats me. True 32-bit integers? That'd probably
> > cause too much confusion=20
> > though, since it would differ from "32-bit
> > Euphoria".
> >=20
> >
> >=20
> >=20
> > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group.
> > FREE!
> >
> >
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
