OpenEuphoria

1. Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by ed_davis May 05, 2015
• 2436 views

Looks like someone setup a blog just to gripe about Euphoria:

http://codehereandthere.blogspot.com/2015/05/lets-design-horrible-language.html

I found this on reddit.com/r/programming (referencing the above):

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/34kza1/lets_design_a_horrible_programming_language/

3. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by Shian_Lee May 05, 2015
• 2355 views

A Little Code Here and There by Jesse Adkins (real name?).

It's certainly not an 'over exaggerated negative post', instead, it's a deliberated post intended to damage the Euphoria programming language.

I've read this shallow post, and its philosophy is suitable perfectly to an 8 years old child.

Well done Jesse Adkins. In the army you could be a great private, as long as you keep your mouth shut. Disclaimer: this is my personal diagnostic.

Jesse Adkins, how old are you really?

Perhaps most importantly ???

Take care and all the best, Shian.

5. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by Shian_Lee May 05, 2015
• 2335 views

I like your civilized diplomacy Jim.

7. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by Spock May 05, 2015
• 2323 views

The author didn't exactly refer to try/catch (although, possibly he had this in mind):

"E does not recognize exceptions that are common in many object-oriented languages. It also lacks a functional-inspired Option-like type to safely segment away potential non-values from other parts of the language."

Try/catch is not the only way to deal with exceptions. As, no doubt, many will remember in recent discussions on the subject..

But, yes. E does need some way of not dying when a trivial error is encountered. An extremely rapid solution to the DIVIDE BY ZERO condition can be incorporated in the source, in about as much time as it takes to write this sentence. To be honest, I haven't actually looked at the source in years. I wouldn't know if they done it already..

Spock

9. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by euphoric (admin) May 05, 2015
• 2352 views

I cannot imagine a case where this would be necessary. Are there examples of the utility of this functionality?

11. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by petelomax May 05, 2015
• 2296 views

There is one case that immediately springs to mind:

--sequence table = {} 
sequence table 
procedure add(x) 
    if not object(table) then 
        table = {} 
    end if 
    table = append(table,x) 
end procedure 

If you only invoke add() after the declaration of table, you do not need the object() test, but if you call it before, the (now commented out) table = {} may not have occurred. In the past I have frequently declared table and integer tinit = 0 (as integers can be and, at least in Phix, are assigned from literals at compile-time) to get around precisely this sort of thing. As written this is fixable, but if you want your table initialized with some run-time generated stuff, then it really has to be a separate flag or an object(table) test. I can accept that object() can always be replaced with a separate flag.

Pete

13. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by Shian_Lee May 06, 2015
• 2283 views

Sorry Pete, you're totally right. I agree.

But since I'm a fighter by nature, not a programmer, I had to put a bait. i.e. by stooping to their level - I can quickly and clearly analyze their weak point. This is a common tactic in fighting - usually, undercover.

Sorry again for violating the Code of Conduct.

15. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by ed_davis May 06, 2015
• 2304 views

I was able to compile it. Next, I wrote a version of my ascii integer mandelbrot benchmark in Lily:

var accum = 0 
var count = 0 
while count < 1545: { 
    var left_edge   = -420 
    var right_edge  =  300 
    var top_edge    =  300 
    var bottom_edge = -300 
    var x_step      =  7 
    var y_step      =  15 
 
    var max_iter    =  200 
 
    var y0 = top_edge 
    while y0 > bottom_edge: { 
        var x0 = left_edge 
        while x0 < right_edge: { 
            var y = 0 
            var x = 0 
            var the_char = 32 
            var x_x = 0 
            var y_y = 0 
            var i = 0 
            while i < max_iter && x_x + y_y <= 800: { 
                x_x = ((x * x) / 200) 
                y_y = ((y * y) / 200) 
                if x_x + y_y > 800: { 
                    the_char = 48 + i 
                    if i > 9: { 
                        the_char = 64 
                    } 
 
                else: 
                    var temp = x_x - y_y + x0 
                    if ((x < 0 && y > 0) || (x > 0 && y < 0)): 
                        y = (-1 * ((-1 * x * y) / 100)) + y0 
                    else: 
                        y = (x * y / 100) + y0 
                    x = temp 
                } 
 
                i = i + 1 
            } 
            accum = accum + the_char 
 
            x0 = x0 + x_step 
        } 
        y0 = y0 - y_step 
    } 
    if count % 300 == 0: 
        printfmt("%d ", accum) 
 
    count = count + 1 
} 
printfmt("%d ", accum) 
 

I compiled Lily with gcc, options -s -Ofast

The benchmark took 162 seconds. Slower than Euphoria (39.9 seconds) but faster than Python (274 seconds). And as you say, it isn't even version 1.0 yet, so it will probably improve.

I like some things about it, but I'm not wild about the syntax for control structures (if, while, etc.).

17. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by ChrisB (moderator) May 07, 2015
• 2188 views

Hi

I'm all for constructive criticism, but thats just a really nasty post for the sake of being nasty, with no actual constructiveness about it at all. Shame on you Adkins.

Perhaps someone should rewrite Lily in Euphoria, just to show how quick it is to develop. (not me btw, I'm a crap programmer, which is why I love Eu so much)

Chris

19. Re: Over exaggerated negative post on reddit programming

• Posted by Shian_Lee May 08, 2015
• 2148 views

Jesse, sincerely, after few years of programming in Microsoft's Basic dialects, and having to add Option Explicit statement on top of each module, together with defint a-z... I need a physiotherapist to cure my both hands.

Initializing variables -

1. Creates a readable, mature, and clear code.
2. Allows a straightforward way to warn that 129 variables are not used anymore.
3. Enforcing a logical way of thinking.
4. Eliminates cases of forgetting to assign the correct value to variable.
5. Allows a quick observation of resources usage.
6. Eliminates all kinds of errors.
   
   And by the way,

1. Integer is known to be the most efficient data type - that's why.
2. Double is not a C invention - it's a well known hardware capacity.
3. Sequence does not stands for "Array" - it's an unlimited dynamic structure, unbelievably easy-to-use, and more powerful then any other concept I know.
4. Actually Object, together with the three above, allows you to use very advanced patterns that cannot be achieved easily, or not at all, in other languages.
5. Beside Integer, Double, (32 or 64 bits), Euphoria-Sequence, and Euphoria-Object: does the PC hardware offers many more exciting data types?
   That's the power of Euphoria: Simplicity.

When you don't know what you're doing, what you're writing - and what for: only then it's hard to tell the difference between "" and {}.
That's another way to get rid of untalented and useless programmers from the business. Look at it as a modest contribution of the Euphoria programming language to the world's global harmony.

I could go on with this, but almost any part of your post is shallow and immature, and I don't want to upset the readers of this forum.

I don't say that you are a bad programmer, I say that your attitude and perspective is very very narrow minded, and with this attitude your contribution to the world of programming is by overloading the already overloaded programming world - with another programming language.

Edit: and by the way, Euphoria users don't need and don't want to care about low level headache such as signed/unsigned registers, 31-bits or 63-bits, or other CPU flags. C does the job very well, at the cost of huge complexity.