1. Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by ArthurCrump Apr 24, 2013
- 1510 views
Forked from Re: forum moderation is broken
Yes, my point was that someone was deleting too many posts. They need to stop, or someone needs to stop them from doing so. I don't know if this forum keeps logs, but I think that someone with moderator privileges is abusing his or her power.
I don't always agree with what you say, useless, but I agree with your right to say it in this forum and that it's not "spamming". You have proven yourself over and over again to be a useful contributor to this community.
I don't know who is doing it, but I see a lot of your posts deleted before I get a chance to read them and judge them on their own merits.
I don't think that any post should be deleted without leaving a marker. Perhaps just a line giving the reason for deletion. The moderator deleting the post should be clearly identified.
2. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1474 views
I don't think that any post should be deleted without leaving a marker. Perhaps just a line giving the reason for deletion.
The moderator deleting the post should be clearly identified.
Agreed. I'd go one further and ask that the original post be kept, but only accessible to moderators, as evidence for the deletion decision.
3. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1483 views
Forked from Re: forum moderation is broken
I don't think that any post should be deleted without leaving a marker. Perhaps just a line giving the reason for deletion. The moderator deleting the post should be clearly identified.
You're absolutely right. That is quite reasonable.
Yes, my point was that someone was deleting too many posts. They need to stop, or someone needs to stop them from doing so. I don't know if this forum keeps logs, but I think that someone with moderator privileges is abusing his or her power.
I don't always agree with what you say, useless, but I agree with your right to say it in this forum and that it's not "spamming". You have proven yourself over and over again to be a useful contributor to this community.
I don't know who is doing it, but I see a lot of your posts deleted before I get a chance to read them and judge them on their own merits.
I was the one doing it. The quality of the post was similiar to http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119347.wc and I was going on the standard that personal attacks and name calling on this forum should not be tolerated.
However, I've decided, as a favor to you, to revive one of the posts as-is (they are all the same), so you may have the ability to judge that post on its own merits.
Here it is: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121510.wc
BTW, how do you know that these posts have been deleted if they are gone before you can read them?
4. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1491 views
BTW, how do you know that these posts have been deleted if they are gone before you can read them?
Sometimes my RSS reader pulls them down before deletion, but they're gone when I go to the forum. I also stumble upon them using the older / newer post links when reading the forum.
Matt
5. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jaygade Apr 24, 2013
- 1509 views
BTW, how do you know that these posts have been deleted if they are gone before you can read them?
When I come to the forum, I click on the "recent" tab, which lists messages newest first regardless of thread. I read from the oldest unread message to the newest.
So I see a bunch of messages with a thread title, but when I click on the title I see "Invalid Post This post is invalid or has been removed."
I was the one doing it. The quality of the post was similiar to http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119347.wc and I was going on the standard that personal attacks and name calling on this forum should not be tolerated.
However, I've decided, as a favor to you, to revive one of the posts as-is (they are all the same), so you may have the ability to judge that post on its own merits.
Here it is: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121510.wc
I agree that the post you re-enabled is against the forum rules and should be removed or moderated based on its content. Maybe all of the ones are like that, not just in that thread. I don't know. I just happened to notice a pattern over the past few months of these "post removed" and many of them belonging to the same person.
I've done forum moderation before and I know it can be a tough job, but I also know that some people do abuse that position.
But in this case, my objection is the one without merit. My apologies.
6. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1490 views
We have multiple admins who, I trust, would not allow abuse.
We certainly wouldn't deny someone to communicate about Euphoria. But when it's peppered with off-topic, inflammatory or otherwise negative and valueless remarks, we have to draw the line somewhere or this forum loses its purpose.
There has been no abusive or overzealous moderation to this point.
There are problematic characters who frequent this forum and it's sometimes difficult to deal with aberrant or unstable behavior. But we're doing our best to keep the forum moving smoothly and focused on Euphoria programming.
Thank you for your patience and understanding. 
7. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1726 views
BTW, how do you know that these posts have been deleted if they are gone before you can read them?
When I come to the forum, I click on the "recent" tab, which lists messages newest first regardless of thread. I read from the oldest unread message to the newest.
So I see a bunch of messages with a thread title, but when I click on the title I see "Invalid Post This post is invalid or has been removed."
Ah. Unlike the older/newer messages links pointed out by Matt, that one is easy to fix. Fixed.
I've done forum moderation before and I know it can be a tough job, but I also know that some people do abuse that position.
But in this case, my objection is the one without merit. My apologies.
No need to apologize. I feel that having others asking for better accountability and more transparency is very important to the viability of the forum, and I've tried hard to live up to these ideals. But I'm not perfect, and I rely on others - such as yourself - to point out my mistakes or warn me if I've gone too far.
I was the one doing it. The quality of the post was similiar to http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119347.wc and I was going on the standard that personal attacks and name calling on this forum should not be tolerated.
However, I've decided, as a favor to you, to revive one of the posts as-is (they are all the same), so you may have the ability to judge that post on its own merits.
Here it is: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121510.wc
I agree that the post you re-enabled is against the forum rules and should be removed or moderated based on its content. Maybe all of the ones are like that, not just in that thread. I don't know. I just happened to notice a pattern over the past few months of these "post removed" and many of them belonging to the same person.
I'm kind of disturbed that you feel that way. I'd like to assure you that, with the exception of one person, virtually every deleted post fit this pattern. (The exception being EUWX's hijacking of ARM-related threads with kernel-related nonsense, which didn't always meet the "personal attack" standard.)
To that end, I've created a quick-view interface, based on the bug that you found in recent.wc - http://openeuphoria.org/recently_deleted.wc will allow you to view the content of deleted posts. If you feel that there are any errors or mistakes, please point them out.
8. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jaygade Apr 24, 2013
- 1482 views
I'm kind of disturbed that you feel that way. I'd like to assure you that, with the exception of one person, virtually every deleted post fit this pattern. (The exception being EUWX's hijacking of ARM-related threads with kernel-related nonsense, which didn't always meet the "personal attack" standard.)
I was only bothered by it because I wasn't seeing the deleted posts (which is the point of deleting them). I've been reading the forum for years (since it was hosted as a listserv, what, 1998 or so?) but I was unaware that Kat sometimes posted material that was as inflammatory as the examples you posted. Stuff like that has no place in a forum on programming.
So because I wasn't seeing the whole story, I thought I was seeing some justification for some of her complaints. Maybe it's because I don't do IRC that I've missed even more context.
Thank you for answering my concerns.
9. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by useless_ Apr 24, 2013
- 1440 views
Forked from Re: forum moderation is broken
I don't think that any post should be deleted without leaving a marker. Perhaps just a line giving the reason for deletion. The moderator deleting the post should be clearly identified.
You're absolutely right. That is quite reasonable.
Yes, my point was that someone was deleting too many posts. They need to stop, or someone needs to stop them from doing so. I don't know if this forum keeps logs, but I think that someone with moderator privileges is abusing his or her power.
I don't always agree with what you say, useless, but I agree with your right to say it in this forum and that it's not "spamming". You have proven yourself over and over again to be a useful contributor to this community.
I don't know who is doing it, but I see a lot of your posts deleted before I get a chance to read them and judge them on their own merits.
I was the one doing it.
Then you lied when you said you were not the one doing it.
The quality of the post was similiar to http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119347.wc and I was going on the standard that personal attacks and name calling on this forum should not be tolerated.
However, I've decided, as a favor to you, to revive one of the posts as-is (they are all the same), so you may have the ability to judge that post on its own merits.
Here it is: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121510.wc
BTW, how do you know that these posts have been deleted if they are gone before you can read them?
I stand by that post, as i am sure euphoric stands by his. If you can say mine are personal, you can say his are also. But you must delete them both. Or delete his, and i won't post a response.
useless
10. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by useless_ Apr 24, 2013
- 1427 views
We have multiple admins who, I trust, would not allow abuse.
We certainly wouldn't deny someone to communicate about Euphoria. But when it's peppered with off-topic, inflammatory or otherwise negative and valueless remarks, we have to draw the line somewhere or this forum loses its purpose.
There has been no abusive or overzealous moderation to this point.
There are problematic characters who frequent this forum and it's sometimes difficult to deal with aberrant or unstable behavior. But we're doing our best to keep the forum moving smoothly and focused on Euphoria programming.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Since we all know who he is talking about (me), i believe this language is inflamatory and incorrect, and unrelated to Euphoria, and should be deleted.
useless
11. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1437 views
I was the one doing it.
Then you lied when you said you were not the one doing it.
I contend that I did not lie. I only claimed that I did not delete http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121486.wc or any post in the week preceding - and I claim as support euphoric's post where he admits to doing it: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121497.wc
Well, I haven't deleted any posts at all this week, so I think it's off to a good start. 
The quality of the post was similiar to http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119347.wc and I was going on the standard that personal attacks and name calling on this forum should not be tolerated.
However, I've decided, as a favor to you, to revive one of the posts as-is (they are all the same), so you may have the ability to judge that post on its own merits.
Here it is: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121510.wc
BTW, how do you know that these posts have been deleted if they are gone before you can read them?
I stand by that post, as i am sure euphoric stands by his. If you can say mine are personal, you can say his are also. But you must delete them both. Or delete his, and i won't post a response.
I think it is acceptable to keep his post and your response to his post (from the day before yesterday), as that addresses the personal attack issue: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/121511.wc
12. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1416 views
Post removed for argument from repetition and sarcastic support for personal attacks.
13. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by useless_ Apr 24, 2013
- 1420 views
Post removed for argument from repetition and sarcastic support for personal attacks.
Wonderful example. Where may i read the deleted post?
useless
14. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by useless_ Apr 24, 2013
- 1390 views
Post removed for argument from repetition and sarcastic support for personal attacks.
The post included the url for proof a post of mine was deleted, and then jimbrown saying he had not deleted any posts in a week.
I think it is acceptable to keep his post and your response to his post
In the interests of Euphoria, i'd delete his post and my post. In the interests of Euphoria, i'd do a couple other things too. His post is not acceptable, which is why i responded to it. I did not support the personal attacks, but if you allow his, then my response should go with it.
useless
15. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1436 views
Post removed for argument from repetition and sarcastic support for personal attacks.
The post included the url for proof a post of mine was deleted, and then jimbrown saying he had not deleted any posts in a week.
Agreed. Since then, I've deleted a whole bunch of posts, but at the time I wrote it, it was true - I hadn't deleted any posts in a week at that point in time, as euphoric was the person who deleted that one post before I wrote my claim.
I think it is acceptable to keep his post and your response to his post
In the interests of Euphoria, i'd delete his post and my post. In the interests of Euphoria, i'd do a couple other things too. His post is not acceptable, which is why i responded to it. I did not support the personal attacks, but if you allow his, then my response should go with it.
I think this is a bit self-serving - if I remove his post, I also remove the proof that shows that he, and not I, deleted that one post. In which case, I can't prove that I'm not a liar regarding the whole "in a week" thing that you keep bringing up. I hope you understand my dilemma.
16. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1418 views
... I've deleted a whole bunch of posts ...
To save people the effort, I'll remove my post before sending it. 
17. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1413 views
...i believe this language is inflamatory and incorrect, and unrelated to Euphoria, and should be deleted.
In this case, the post is on-topic and relevant to the issue being discussed, especially as it regards the OpenEuphoria forum and how we moderate.
18. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by useless_ Apr 24, 2013
- 1412 views
I think this is a bit self-serving - if I remove his post, I also remove the proof that shows that he, and not I, deleted that one post. In which case, I can't prove that I'm not a liar regarding the whole "in a week" thing that you keep bringing up. I hope you understand my dilemma.
I try to avoid kat's crap as much as possible, and have held myself back for a very long time, but to hear her whine about this grand conspiracy against her sometimes gets to be too much. Straw on the camel's back, etc...
So, deleted post for: Irrelevant whining, persecution complex, etc...
...i believe this language is inflamatory and incorrect, and unrelated to Euphoria, and should be deleted.
In this case, the post is on-topic and relevant to the issue being discussed, especially as it regards the OpenEuphoria forum and how we moderate.
Not a conspiracy, but you do have each other's back covered on this one.
useless
19. Re: Overzealous forum moderation
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 24, 2013
- 1417 views
Not a conspiracy, but you do have each other's back covered on this one.
Agreed. Having admins that work well with each other should be the natural state of affairs.
