1. GUI Library Choice
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Mar 31, 2011
- 2729 views
Forked from Re: Euphoria 4.0.1 Released
I don't know how much time you have had to test 4.0.1 with Winlib and with the wxEuphoria. Anyway, when convenient, I am hoping for a firm statement from you about which library to use and which works well and what bugs remain to be ironed out, etc. There is no hurry, but hopefully, you or somebody else can advise us in the next month or so. Also, if possible, the URL to the exact version to use.
As usual with programming questions, the answer is, "It depends." Here, I think is a reasonable comparison (off the top of my head, and to which others can no doubt add to), from which you can decide which is right for you:
| Win32Lib | wxEuphoria | |
|---|---|---|
| Home page | http://win32libex.sourceforge.net | http://wxeuphoria.sourceforge.net |
| Written in | 100% euphoria, no external requirements | Requires external DLL / shared library |
| OS / Platform | Windows 32-bit Only | Cross platform, 32 or 64-bit (No 64-bit code has been officially released, either for euphoria or wxEuphoria. However, 64-bit euphoria 4.1 works with a 64-bit build of wxEuphoria from svn, at least on Linux.) |
| Character Encoding | ANSI | ANSI or Unicode, depending on Library build |
| IDEs | IDE available written in pure euphoria | 3rd party wxWidgets GUI designers are available, and using the XML resource output, can be used in wxEuphoria using wxXmlResource |
| Control placement and sizing | Pixel placement of widgets, though 3rd party tools exist for automatic resizing | Sizers built in |
| Grid / Tables | 3rd party library exists, some support in IDE (?) | wxGrid |
| Extra capabilities | Memory / structure management | Regular expressions, XML |
The current Win32Lib head of svn works with euphoria 4.0, though I think there are issues with the IDE, as have been discussed. I know that Derek is working to update Win32Lib, and I think once that gets to a certain point, the IDE.
I would generally recommend the latest release of wxEuphoria. On some Linux distributions, you may need to build the library, as your package manager might install a different version of wxWidgets than what I have. The "official" release is usually built on an up to date Ubuntu machine.
I'm not currently aware of bugs in either library, which is not to say that they don't exist. I've worked on both libraries in the past, and plan to work on both in the future, though when I personally write GUI apps, I use wxEuphoria. There are other choices, such as Arwen, EuIuP, EuGTK, and probably others that I'm forgetting. I have less experience with these. Others can fill in the blanks in the above tables for their favorite libraries.
Matt
2. Re: GUI Library Choice
- Posted by Vinoba Mar 31, 2011
- 2591 views
Thanks for the detailed post about Win libraries.
Looking at some other low level software, I noticed a slight trend towards QT4, e.g. some of the Harbour developers are talking QT4 and swearing by it. Intel Meego (and Atom) also are incorporating QT4. I looked at the Euphoria's EuQT and the Readme warns me of a lot of problems because of Watcom compiler. Surely, I should be able to use MinGw or other compiler. Also if one worked in Euphoria and compiled to C or DLL level (using Watcom) and then linked with a mostly GUI, graphics and Grid QT4 compiled with MinGw, it should work, should it not?
I note that the quthor of EuQT has worked with the Version 4 beta of Euphoria and QT4.
The reason I am talking about QT4 id the lack of a stable IDE in Win32Lib.
Any comments? I don't want to stir up a controversy - just a discussion.
3. Re: GUI Library Choice
- Posted by ne1uno Apr 01, 2011
- 2606 views
Looking at some other low level software, I noticed a slight trend towards QT4, e.g. some of the Harbour developers are talking QT4 and swearing by it. Intel Meego (and Atom) also are incorporating QT4. I looked at the Euphoria's EuQT and the Readme warns me of a lot of problems because of Watcom compiler. Surely, I should be able to use MinGw or other compiler. Also if one worked in Euphoria and compiled to C or DLL level (using Watcom) and then linked with a mostly GUI, graphics and Grid QT4 compiled with MinGw, it should work, should it not?
I note that the quthor of EuQT has worked with the Version 4 beta of Euphoria and QT4.
The reason I am talking about QT4 id the lack of a stable IDE in Win32Lib.
Any comments? I don't want to stir up a controversy - just a discussion.
can I ask why you appear to be so risk averse? generally speaking it is fairly painless to try one or another lib or version before deciding. I am on a dialup so I do tend to decide before downloading anything myself.
I thought most of the win32lib IDE problems had been solved by Ck. see some previous forum post for download links. I was able to translate the IDE using that code and a pretranslated exe was included too. this was still using the 3.1 compatible libs with 4.0, all the necessary win32lib files were included. though, I don't use win32lib myself except for the occasional program tryout or test.
since nokia acquired trolltech and relaxed the licensing on windows Qt does seem to getting more concideration or is at least talked about more.
many of the euqt/Qt problems are win9x or Qt4.5 beta related. I may not have updated the readme and eu4qt issues tracker completely yet.
Qt is already planning out Qt4.8 while Qt4.5 is the last version that works on win9x. I don't think it will be much problem linking to a later Qt version, it may work "as is" now, even with out rebuilding euqt.
you can't yet compile Qt or euqt themselfs with watcom because qmake doesn't support watcom, although it could easily with a custom makspec file.
Qt and euqt compiles ok with minGW gcc and works with watcom built eui and euphoria programs translated with watcom just fine. 4.0 and 4.1 much more has to be wrapped but I use it daily.
as to which GUI kit is better? you are going to have to get very specific requirements to prefer one over the other.
if the IDE is a limiting factor, Qt-designer is hard to beat for pure joy of layout building. but the cost is the considerable size of the Qt libs and toolchain required. they do have embedded versions so you can ship only those libs that are needed with your app, but again you have increased cost just to get setup.
4. Re: GUI Library Choice
- Posted by Vinoba Apr 01, 2011
- 2610 views
can I ask why you appear to be so risk averse? generally speaking it is fairly painless to try one or another lib or version before deciding. I am on a dialup so I do tend to decide before downloading anything myself.
I am planning medium term, and cannot afford to address problems of "lack of support". I have the choice of 4 LIBs for GUI, and have to decide BEFORE starting, as to which one I will use. While any of the four might do, the fact that none of them is promoted as integrated with Euphoria (as opposed to say, Agena, or PureBasic, I have to be more penetrating in my search for the right tools.
I thought most of the win32lib IDE problems had been solved by Ck. see some previous forum post for download links. I was able to translate the IDE using that code and a pretranslated exe was included too. this was still using the 3.1 compatible libs with 4.0, all the necessary win32lib files were included. though, I don't use win32lib myself except for the occasional program tryout or test.
if the IDE is a limiting factor, Qt-designer is hard to beat for pure joy of layout building......
For me, the quality IDE itself is not a limiting factor. I am perfectly happy to use simpler tools such as Wordpad, but I have to consider the needs of others who are or will be helping me and all these people are the next generation IDE oriented nerds. In that light, I welcome your statement regarding QT designer, which confirms what I read on other forums.
many of the euqt/Qt problems are win9x or Qt4.5 beta related. I may not have updated the readme and eu4qt issues tracker completely yet.
Qt is already planning out Qt4.8 while Qt4.5 is the last version that works on win9x. I don't think it will be much problem linking to a later Qt version, it may work "as is" now, even with out rebuilding euqt.
Thanks for confirming what I had vaguely understood to be the case. At $80 for a used Pentium 3 with 20GB HD including Win XP, I do not want to think about Win 98. It was good while it lasted (so was Dos and win 3.1). The intended audience of my new effort can easily afford this.
you can't yet compile Qt or euqt themselfs with watcom because qmake doesn't support watcom, although it could easily with a custom makspec file.
Qt and euqt compiles ok with minGW gcc and works with watcom built eui and euphoria programs translated with watcom just fine. 4.0 and 4.1 much more has to be wrapped but I use it daily.
That is a concern, which I am hoping I will be able to overcome by two separate compilations (Euphoria program separately from QT) using two compilers and linking later. Alternatively, I will experiment with compilation of both together under one compiler (not Watcom)
but the cost is the considerable size of the Qt libs and toolchain required. they do have embedded versions so you can ship only those libs that are needed with your app, but again you have increased cost just to get setup.
At $69 for 1 TB SATA HD, I am not concerned about size. My intended audience will have to afford this.
they do have embedded versions so you can ship only those libs that are needed with your app, but again you have increased cost just to get setup.
Embedded version is low priority for the time being. The need may arise 2 years down the road.
I wish to emphasize, that none of my statements were intended as criticism of your efforts. You explain very well the limitations under which you are working. Anything I said was to bring into focus the availability and viability of Euphoria and QT. You have been very helpful.
