1. how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by Jerry_Story Aug 15, 2010
- 2591 views
Can we have an estimate of how many Euphoria programmers exist?
How many win32Lib programmers?
How many wxEuphoria programmers?
How many EuGTK programmers?
How many professionals?
How many amateurs?
Seems to me maybe there are not enough high tech programmers in the Euphoria community with the ability and the time and the motivation to develop the language and the libraries and deb etc files.
Maybe Euphoria is a dying language.
2. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by DanM Aug 16, 2010
- 2569 views
amateur Win32Lib
Dan M.
3. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by Selgor Aug 16, 2010
- 2569 views
Total Novice - amateur win32lib
What about dos ?
4. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by m_sabal Aug 16, 2010
- 2517 views
I continue to use Win32Lib for new projects, and EuGTK for some existing projects. I am using Euphoria far less now than I did before the grand push to 4.0. I am using Mono/C# more for desktop apps, and PHP for web apps. The reason for these choices has more to do with "market forces" than the quality of either of the languages. For Windows services, which comprises a large percentage (though not majority) of my coding, I still use Euphoria exclusively.
5. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by evanmars Aug 16, 2010
- 2497 views
Novice/Intermediate
I have developed a few apps for use at work, and play around with OpenGL. Both using Windows API.
6. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by alanjohnoxley Aug 17, 2010
- 2422 views
I consider myself a novice, although a win32lib app I wrote was successfully sold. Very niche, it generated mainframe JCL code. Mostly the apps I write are for myself, dos execs to manipulate data or extend the batch file functionality.
The user contributions as seen on the rapideuphoria.com webpage have declined considerably since going open source... used to be about 3 per day, now its maybe 3 per month! Hopefully thats not indicative of the state of Euphoria.
<ungrateful mode> When will Eu 4 be official so we can sing its praises and attract more users ? </ungrateful mode>
7. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by ArthurCrump Aug 17, 2010
- 2449 views
Just for the count of Euphoria programmers:
As far as Euphoria is concerned, I am an amateur, but not a novice. Nowadays I program mainly for my own amusement.
I have programmed in other high and low level languages professionally for nearly 40 years, starting in 1958, but never in C or its derivatives. My first computer language was Mercury Autocode.
Of all the computer languages that I have used, Euphoria is the most flexible and easy to follow.
Post edited because I forgot to mention that I use win32lib.
In fact it is a version by the user 'Mike' archived as win32lib4.zip
Arthur
8. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by jaygade Aug 17, 2010
- 2396 views
Hmm. I don't know if I should count or not as I've never written very much and it has been a long while since I've written anything.
Let's see: I consider myself an amateur programmer but I only write command line stuff. No Win32lib, EuGTK, WxEuphoria, etc.
I never understood the IDE, although I think I understand GUI programming in general it just never really took hold of me.
9. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Aug 17, 2010
- 2351 views
Hi
I'm not a professional programmer, but use it to write the practice management system for my practice. I use it on Linux at work, and at home use it for fun, and mental challenges, getting graphical programs to work, and so on.
Is it a dying language - God no, its just not very popular at the moment, although I'm not sure I understand why it hasn't reached that critcial mass to allow it to take off. Its by far the easiest language, and most versatile and understandable that someone of my level has used. I go back to code written a year or more ago, and can understand it relatively quickly.
Why did Ruby, Java, Javascript, PHP and python become as popular as they did so quickly? Could Euphoria learn from this, or has the departure of Robert Craig meant that many observers felt that it lost its way? Perhaps its very ease of use is something that puts off a lot curious explorers?
Chris
10. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by Selgor Aug 18, 2010
- 2308 views
very ease of use is something that puts off a lot curious explorers?
Chris
Hey Chris,
Not so easy for us beginners
I just don't think they (explorers) see the "staying" power it (Euphoria)
can have over you .
I am not "punning" on the meaning of the word.
Maybe present a few of the better games, graphics, in the initial demos ??
Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers,
Selgor
11. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 18, 2010
- 2272 views
Why did Ruby, Java, Javascript, PHP and python become as popular as they did so quickly?
One thing that these have is some degree of Object-Oriented functionality, but I'm not saying that OO is absolutely required for popularity.
Currently, OO features are not likely to be introduced into Euphoria until version 5. This will cause a massive rethink and internal redesign of the underlying architecture so it will not be rushed into. We do not want v4 code to be made obsolete by introducing OO so we will do it gently and will great care.
Once v4.0 is released, v4.1 will mainly be bug fixes, v4.2 will be focusing on performance, v4.3 more bug fixes. Also, v4.1 will probably add support for 64-bit machines.
12. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by SergioGelli Aug 18, 2010
- 2283 views
I'm not a programmer, but use Euphoria for many years, making some auxiliary programs in my business and use Euphoria also to improve my computer skills.
For complex reasons, I always try to keep my code Euphoria running with Wine in Linux.
At the time, I desire to produce a code to manipulate photographic images, but because of Eu311 attempt to quit and go to Eu40b3, I could not write at least two lines
Why did Ruby, Java, Javascript, PHP and python become as popular as they did so quickly?
Why not Euphoria became popular?
Because no advertising.
Because it lacks the support of a large company like SUN.
Perhaps the future will be different, if each of us undertakes to convey the message "Just Say No to the complicated programming language".
If Administrators of euphoria show interest, so I can take some steps, here in Brazil.
13. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by AndyDrummond Aug 18, 2010
- 2284 views
Can we have an estimate of how many Euphoria programmers exist?
How many win32Lib programmers?
How many wxEuphoria programmers?
How many EuGTK programmers?
How many professionals?
How many amateurs?
Seems to me maybe there are not enough high tech programmers in the Euphoria community with the ability and the time and the motivation to develop the language and the libraries and deb etc files.
Maybe Euphoria is a dying language.
I use Euphoria because it is a very simple language, and in particular using Judith's IDE and Win32Lib I knock over simple programs in minutes. I use it for databases, simulations, table generation (I mainly program in C for Microchip's PIC devices) and all sorts of nice simple tasks. So I use Eu3 because AFAIK Eu4 won't run the IDE and when I tried using Win32Lib I got lots of obscure errors with visibility problems.
If Eu4 ever gets off the ground and is as solid and reliable and easy to use as Eu3 then I will change; otherwise Eu3 does all I want. It is a great language and Rob's original idea of data storage was brilliant. One data logger & status system ran for five years on a laptop in XP without a hiccup - I never managed that many weeks using C! If Eu dies it will be a great tragedy, and will probably come down to committee-programming rather than anything else. There is a market for a solid reliable simple language that just works. There are many languages which are clever, flexible, full of features - and are flakey and hard to drive. Guess which I prefer!
Andy Drummond
14. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by stachon Aug 18, 2010
- 2247 views
Why did Ruby, Java, Javascript, PHP and python become as popular as they did so quickly? Could Euphoria learn from this, or has the departure of Robert Craig meant that many observers felt that it lost its way?
It happens I have worked in all the languages you mentioned.
PHP is a mess, but it was freely avaiable way back when Euphoria was still commercial. This allowed the creation of the LAMP platform. It is good Eu is now free, but maybe it is too late...
Ruby is very elegant high-level language, allowing you to write applications rapidly with just a fraction of code lines you'd need in Euphoria. But is also slow and buggy.
Java is backed by big bussines. I think the language with virtual machine is a good trade off between being programmer friendly and good performance.
JavaScript - also bussines behind this. Unlike Eu has a public specification.
Python is the language that reminds me most of Euphoria. Except that it has OOP. Today no serious application development can be done without OOP.
I am sorry to do this ranting again. But without OOP Euphoria will still be just an educational/hobby language, not suitable for larger projects.
So my thoughts are : add OOP, or something new and cool (new data structures, remoting, functional programming?), or perhaps focus on smaller, specialized market (embedded devices programming, web services?)
Btw, what happened to Rob?
Martin
15. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by hacker Aug 18, 2010
- 2254 views
Personally I don't want to see Euphoria go exclusively OO, perhaps there could be "extensions"?
I use Eu on both Linux and windows (Wine), but only GUI programming using EuWinGui, which is by far the easiest way to create GUI apps I've ever found, although somewhat limited.
As a (mostly) hobby programmer, I like the minimalism and simplicity of the language, although I must admit the developers have done a fantastic job on 4.0. I just hope that one day it will be as stable as 3.
Is Rob Craig officially "retired" now? or does he still have a hand in development?
16. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by cp Aug 18, 2010
- 2178 views
I took BASIC (25yrs ago), Intro JAVA and Intro C as well as exposure to PHP/Javascript/Perl in college but had never programmed anything professionally until about 1.5 yrs ago - when I needed to build a program to help one of our customers in a very short period of time. It needed to interact with our products's API and Windows API. I turned to Euphoria and as was able to get the first working version done in a few days and over a couple months had the complete product done. That program has been in production for many months now, working perfectly running as a windows service with no crashes etc. In addition I created a handful of simple utilities that have been useful as well. That is the power of Eu. I would never have been successful using one of the "other" langauges. Eu was elegant, simple and just worked.
IMHO it is a fantastic language and I for one am willing to pay for it. I wish I was a strong enough developer to help with the product, but am willing to offer what I can financial or otherwise.
I'm now contemplating another application with Eu however my research shows me that I really need multi-threading and 64bit. I don't want to go to another language but I may be forced to based on those requirements. What investment would be needed to get Eu to 64bit and multi-threading?
17. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 18, 2010
- 2192 views
I'm now contemplating another application with Eu however my research shows me that I really need multi-threading and 64bit. I don't want to go to another language but I may be forced to based on those requirements. What investment would be needed to get Eu to 64bit and multi-threading?
64-bit is coming (v4.1). There is a mostly working [Linux] implementation in a branch in svn. I say mostly working, because there are still some issues that need to be worked out with respect to 32 vs 64 bits in areas such as hashing and bitwise operations (mainly). Let me know if you're interested in playing with it. We may be able to build a Windows 64-bit version using mingw (this has been suggested, but not tried) or MSVC to build. Watcom is 32-bit only.
Multi-threading is a different issue, and not very likely to happen any time soon. This is something that may be more easily worked around than the 64-bit issue, however. Why do you need multi-threading?
Matt
18. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by cp Aug 18, 2010
- 2157 views
I'm now contemplating another application with Eu however my research shows me that I really need multi-threading and 64bit. I don't want to go to another language but I may be forced to based on those requirements. What investment would be needed to get Eu to 64bit and multi-threading?
64-bit is coming (v4.1). There is a mostly working [Linux] implementation in a branch in svn. I say mostly working, because there are still some issues that need to be worked out with respect to 32 vs 64 bits in areas such as hashing and bitwise operations (mainly). Let me know if you're interested in playing with it. We may be able to build a Windows 64-bit version using mingw (this has been suggested, but not tried) or MSVC to build. Watcom is 32-bit only.
Multi-threading is a different issue, and not very likely to happen any time soon. This is something that may be more easily worked around than the 64-bit issue, however. Why do you need multi-threading?
Matt
The application will be processing millions/billions of records of data and based on some testing I need to utilize multiple processing cores to get the job done in a shorter time frame.. so 64bit for huge sequences and MT from processing lots of data as fast as possible. In addition the product/API I'll be interacting with is multi-threaded so mt will help to take better advantage of that. I know there are some "shared memory" workarounds but I'm not sure I like the idea..
Casey
19. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by Vinoba Sep 22, 2010
- 1613 views
[quote stachon]
I am sorry to do this ranting again. But without OOP Euphoria will still be just an educational/hobby language, not suitable for larger projects.........
Martin
Gosh! I just joined because I am considering a big project using Euphoria and I hate oop. I think a procedural language can do as good if not better job than a oop language. Fast execution. I used various procedural language packages which allow calls to assember programs- i.e. allowing direct execuition of machine code, and nothing can beat that.
20. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Sep 22, 2010
- 1607 views
[quote Vinoba]
I am sorry to do this ranting again. But without OOP Euphoria will still be just an educational/hobby language, not suitable for larger projects.........
Martin
Gosh! I just joined because I am considering a big project using Euphoria and I hate oop. I think a procedural language can do as good if not better job than a oop language. Fast execution. I used various procedural language packages which allow calls to assember programs- i.e. allowing direct execuition of machine code, and nothing can beat that.
In each case, choose the tool that best suits the work at hand. Sometimes that's OOP, sometimes its procedural, sometimes its functional, and sometimes a mixture of styles.
21. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by dcole Sep 22, 2010
- 1662 views
Maybe Euphoria is a dying language.
Perhaps. Please see my post. http://oe.cowgar.com/forum/112525.wc?last_id=0
Novice
Win32lib
DOS
Football handicapping. Stocks handicapping.
I'm loosing on both.
I can't blame Euphoria for that.
Don Cole
22. Re: how many Euphoria programmers?
- Posted by irv Sep 23, 2010
- 1617 views
Is it dying? Probably.
Is that because it's not as good as language x?
I doubt it. I know of other languages which frankly were better than Euphoria, free, fast, with OOp, and various nice features that never had more than 10 or so users. They're dead already.
The truth is, fewer and fewer people have any need to program anything. Why, exactly, should I write something when I can download 10 - 20 different programs free from the web which do what I need to do?
So, there are really only 2 reasons to program at all - either you're getting paid for it, and you will of course use what they require all you cubicle slaves to use (and like it!), or you're doing it for your own amusement. Not many people do that anymore.
No point in worrying about it - this is a general trend, not limited to computer programming. Ever seen a ham radio club? Nobody under 65 there. Model airplanes? Electronics? Travel? All the same. All dying.
People no longer have the interest or curiosity or intelligence to deal with stuff like that. Tweeting successfully is a major accomplishment for them. You'll get a blank stare if you talk to them about things that average people used to be interested in. Thinking is too hard!
Evolution works both ways, you know.
