1. More simple UI questions
I have a window with a number of textboxes and some groups. When tabbing
through the controls, when I hit tab while positioned at the "bottom" of one
group it doesn't go directly to the first control of the next group. Instead, it
seems to go to the group itself, which doesn't show any visible signs of being
"selected" so the user experience is that the text cursor has disappeared.
Hitting another tab puts the text cursor in the first control of the next group.
I have confirmed that the IDE has been set so that the order is correct (there
are no controls, enabled or otherwise, listed between the example controls of the
last paragraph).
If anybody has any ideas what I can check for, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Mike
2. Re: More simple UI questions
Mike777 wrote:
>
> I have a window with a number of textboxes and some groups. When tabbing
> through
> the controls, when I hit tab while positioned at the "bottom" of one group it
> doesn't go directly to the first control of the next group. Instead, it seems
> to go to the group itself, which doesn't show any visible signs of being
> "selected"
> so the user experience is that the text cursor has disappeared. Hitting
> another
> tab puts the text cursor in the first control of the next group.
>
> I have confirmed that the IDE has been set so that the order is correct (there
> are no controls, enabled or otherwise, listed between the example controls of
> the last paragraph).
>
> If anybody has any ideas what I can check for, I would appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
The expected behaviour of tabbing is to cycle through all elements of a group,
once the group has been entered. You have to do something else to change from a
group to another. Since there is no general concept of what the "next group" is,
there is no standard keyboard shortcut to go there - it makes sense for nested
groups, but not for unnested ones -..
As for what happens on reaching the last element of a group, I don't observe the
effect you mention in he grouptabs.exw demo. Did you run it and have the same
experience?
CChris
3. Re: More simple UI questions
CChris wrote:
>
> Mike777 wrote:
> >
> > I have a window with a number of textboxes and some groups. When tabbing
> > through
> > the controls, when I hit tab while positioned at the "bottom" of one group
> > it
> > doesn't go directly to the first control of the next group. Instead, it
> > seems
> > to go to the group itself, which doesn't show any visible signs of being
> > "selected"
> > so the user experience is that the text cursor has disappeared. Hitting
> > another
> > tab puts the text cursor in the first control of the next group.
> >
> > I have confirmed that the IDE has been set so that the order is correct
> > (there
> > are no controls, enabled or otherwise, listed between the example controls
> > of
> > the last paragraph).
> >
> > If anybody has any ideas what I can check for, I would appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike
>
> The expected behaviour of tabbing is to cycle through all elements of a group,
> once the group has been entered. You have to do something else to change from
> a group to another. Since there is no general concept of what the "next group"
> is, there is no standard keyboard shortcut to go there - it makes sense for
> nested groups, but not for unnested ones -..
>
> As for what happens on reaching the last element of a group, I don't observe
> the effect you mention in he grouptabs.exw demo. Did you run it and have the
> same experience?
I find the behaviour in that program, grouptab.ewx, to be the opposite of what I
want. It has four groups and 4 standalone controls. Of the four groups, three
are at the same level as the 4 standalone controls and the first of those groups
has a nested group.
The behaviour on my machine is that each group acts something like Hotel
California. You can never leave (using the tab key). That is, the tab key
cycles you through the group itself and once you are in that group, you are stuck
there. It uses the arrow keys (down, up) to cycle through groups. That is not
intuitive at all (to me).
What I really want is to ignore the groups entirely. I just want the group
indicators to function as visual grouping cues for the end user, not in any way
affect the UI experience.
I just tried ensuring that all groups have no child controls. That is, ensuring
that all the controls have their parent set as the window, not the group. No
change.
So the question is how to simulate a group without actually having one.
Thanks
Mike
4. Re: More simple UI questions
Mike777 wrote:
>
> CChris wrote:
> >
> > Mike777 wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a window with a number of textboxes and some groups. When tabbing
> > > through
> > > the controls, when I hit tab while positioned at the "bottom" of one group
> > > it
> > > doesn't go directly to the first control of the next group. Instead, it
> > > seems
> > > to go to the group itself, which doesn't show any visible signs of being
> > > "selected"
> > > so the user experience is that the text cursor has disappeared. Hitting
> > > another
> > > tab puts the text cursor in the first control of the next group.
> > >
> > > I have confirmed that the IDE has been set so that the order is correct
> > > (there
> > > are no controls, enabled or otherwise, listed between the example controls
> > > of
> > > the last paragraph).
> > >
> > > If anybody has any ideas what I can check for, I would appreciate it.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > The expected behaviour of tabbing is to cycle through all elements of a
> > group,
> > once the group has been entered. You have to do something else to change
> > from
> > a group to another. Since there is no general concept of what the "next
> > group"
> > is, there is no standard keyboard shortcut to go there - it makes sense for
> > nested groups, but not for unnested ones -..
> >
> > As for what happens on reaching the last element of a group, I don't observe
> > the effect you mention in he grouptabs.exw demo. Did you run it and have the
> > same experience?
>
> I find the behaviour in that program, grouptab.ewx, to be the opposite of what
> I want. It has four groups and 4 standalone controls. Of the four groups,
> three
> are at the same level as the 4 standalone controls and the first of those
> groups
> has a nested group.
>
> The behaviour on my machine is that each group acts something like Hotel
> California.
> You can never leave (using the tab key). That is, the tab key cycles you
> through
> the group itself and once you are in that group, you are stuck there. It uses
> the arrow keys (down, up) to cycle through groups. That is not intuitive at
> all (to me).
>
> What I really want is to ignore the groups entirely. I just want the group
> indicators to function as visual grouping cues for the end user, not in any
> way affect the UI experience.
>
> I just tried ensuring that all groups have no child controls. That is,
> ensuring
> that all the controls have their parent set as the window, not the group. No
> change.
>
> So the question is how to simulate a group without actually having one.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
Easy: draw a rectangle encompassing all the controls you want "grouped", give it
a border and/or a distinctive background color, all this using drawRectangle().
Then create a label with appropriate background and text, sticking it where it
seems more relevant or viible. This way, the frame work will simply be a visual
frame. Oh, and setEnable(the_label,w32False) so that it doesn't interfere with
tabbing.
CChris
5. Re: More simple UI questions
CChris wrote:
>
> Mike777 wrote:
> >
> > CChris wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike777 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have a window with a number of textboxes and some groups. When
> > > > tabbing
> through</font></i>
> > > > the controls, when I hit tab while positioned at the "bottom" of one
> > > > group it
> > > > doesn't go directly to the first control of the next group. Instead, it
> > > > seems
> > > > to go to the group itself, which doesn't show any visible signs of being
> "selected"</font></i>
> > > > so the user experience is that the text cursor has disappeared. Hitting
> > > > another
> > > > tab puts the text cursor in the first control of the next group.
> > > >
> > > > I have confirmed that the IDE has been set so that the order is correct
> > > > (there
> > > > are no controls, enabled or otherwise, listed between the example
> > > > controls of
> > > > the last paragraph).
> > > >
> > > > If anybody has any ideas what I can check for, I would appreciate it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > >
> > > The expected behaviour of tabbing is to cycle through all elements of a
> > > group,
> > > once the group has been entered. You have to do something else to change
> > > from
> > > a group to another. Since there is no general concept of what the "next
> > > group"
> > > is, there is no standard keyboard shortcut to go there - it makes sense
> > > for
> > > nested groups, but not for unnested ones -..
> > >
> > > As for what happens on reaching the last element of a group, I don't
> > > observe
> > > the effect you mention in he grouptabs.exw demo. Did you run it and have
> > > the
> > > same experience?
> >
> > I find the behaviour in that program, grouptab.ewx, to be the opposite of
> > what
> > I want. It has four groups and 4 standalone controls. Of the four groups,
> > three
> > are at the same level as the 4 standalone controls and the first of those
> > groups
> > has a nested group.
> >
> > The behaviour on my machine is that each group acts something like Hotel
> > California.
> > You can never leave (using the tab key). That is, the tab key cycles you
> > through
> > the group itself and once you are in that group, you are stuck there. It
> > uses
> > the arrow keys (down, up) to cycle through groups. That is not intuitive at
> > all (to me).
> >
> > What I really want is to ignore the groups entirely. I just want the group
> > indicators to function as visual grouping cues for the end user, not in any
> > way affect the UI experience.
> >
> > I just tried ensuring that all groups have no child controls. That is,
> > ensuring
> > that all the controls have their parent set as the window, not the group.
> > No
> > change.
> >
> > So the question is how to simulate a group without actually having one.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike
>
> Easy: draw a rectangle encompassing all the controls you want "grouped", give
> it a border and/or a distinctive background color, all this using
> drawRectangle().
> Then create a label with appropriate background and text, sticking it where
> it seems more relevant or viible. This way, the frame work will simply be a
> visual frame. Oh, and setEnable(the_label,w32False) so that it doesn't
> interfere
> with tabbing.
You gave me an idea. I disabled all of the groups and, as expected, the tabbing
now works. So it seems the simpler mechanism would be to figure out how to
change the visible control (the group) to look like it is not disabled but leave
it disabled.
My guess is that there is a way to tell the computer to use the formatting of
being enabled fairly simply. I just have to figure that out!
Thanks
Mike
6. Re: More simple UI questions
- Posted by Mike777 <anon4321 at g?ail.co?>
Jan 09, 2008
-
Last edited Jan 10, 2008
Mike777 wrote:
>
> CChris wrote:
> >
> > Mike777 wrote:
> > >
> > > CChris wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike777 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a window with a number of textboxes and some groups. When
> > > > > tabbing
> > through</font></i>
> > > > > the controls, when I hit tab while positioned at the "bottom" of one
> > > > > group
> it</font></i>
> > > > > doesn't go directly to the first control of the next group. Instead,
> > > > > it
> seems</font></i>
> > > > > to go to the group itself, which doesn't show any visible signs of
> > > > > being
> > "selected"</font></i>
> > > > > so the user experience is that the text cursor has disappeared.
> > > > > Hitting
> another</font></i>
> > > > > tab puts the text cursor in the first control of the next group.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have confirmed that the IDE has been set so that the order is
> > > > > correct
> (there</font></i>
> > > > > are no controls, enabled or otherwise, listed between the example
> > > > > controls
> of</font></i>
> > > > > the last paragraph).
> > > > >
> > > > > If anybody has any ideas what I can check for, I would appreciate it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > The expected behaviour of tabbing is to cycle through all elements of a
> > > > group,
> > > > once the group has been entered. You have to do something else to change
> > > > from
> > > > a group to another. Since there is no general concept of what the "next
> > > > group"
> > > > is, there is no standard keyboard shortcut to go there - it makes sense
> > > > for
> > > > nested groups, but not for unnested ones -..
> > > >
> > > > As for what happens on reaching the last element of a group, I don't
> > > > observe
> > > > the effect you mention in he grouptabs.exw demo. Did you run it and have
> > > > the
> > > > same experience?
> > >
> > > I find the behaviour in that program, grouptab.ewx, to be the opposite of
> > > what
> > > I want. It has four groups and 4 standalone controls. Of the four groups,
> > > three
> > > are at the same level as the 4 standalone controls and the first of those
> > > groups
> > > has a nested group.
> > >
> > > The behaviour on my machine is that each group acts something like Hotel
> > > California.
> > > You can never leave (using the tab key). That is, the tab key cycles you
> > > through
> > > the group itself and once you are in that group, you are stuck there. It
> > > uses
> > > the arrow keys (down, up) to cycle through groups. That is not intuitive
> > > at
> > > all (to me).
> > >
> > > What I really want is to ignore the groups entirely. I just want the
> > > group
> > > indicators to function as visual grouping cues for the end user, not in
> > > any
> > > way affect the UI experience.
> > >
> > > I just tried ensuring that all groups have no child controls. That is,
> > > ensuring
> > > that all the controls have their parent set as the window, not the group.
> > > No
> > > change.
> > >
> > > So the question is how to simulate a group without actually having one.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > Easy: draw a rectangle encompassing all the controls you want "grouped",
> > give
> > it a border and/or a distinctive background color, all this using
> > drawRectangle().
> > Then create a label with appropriate background and text, sticking it where
> > it seems more relevant or viible. This way, the frame work will simply be a
> > visual frame. Oh, and setEnable(the_label,w32False) so that it doesn't
> > interfere
> > with tabbing.
>
> You gave me an idea. I disabled all of the groups and, as expected, the
> tabbing
> now works. So it seems the simpler mechanism would be to figure out how to
> change the visible control (the group) to look like it is not disabled but
> leave
> it disabled.
>
> My guess is that there is a way to tell the computer to use the formatting of
> being enabled fairly simply. I just have to figure that out!
Removed caption from disabled group. Added/overlaid a new label where the
caption would have been. Works for me.
Mike
