1. forum with no search function?
- Posted by jiri Dec 19, 2008
- 1142 views
- Last edited Dec 20, 2008
C'mon, guys, who is responsible for the forum's mechanics? Tens of thousands of threads and no search function? You are shooting yourselves in your collective foot. With so many good free forum designs floating around there is no reason to persist with a lame one just to massage somebody's bruised ego. People are going to ask the same stupid questions again and again - in fact I have a few of my own...
With the new promising version of euphoria out in the open, how do I report bugs? Can anybody contribute? How does one become a developer? And if I have no desire to become one, can I still make suggestions or smaller contribution, and to whom? With Rob apparently out of the loop, who decides what goes in and what is kept out? Do you have a set of rules, or just a committee, do you vote on it? A fat FAQ file would be nice, but do not ask me to join a chit-chat group of any kind - with different time zones coupled with a low tolerance for nonsense it's not an option for me. jiri
2. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by ne1uno Dec 19, 2008
- 1492 views
- Last edited Dec 20, 2008
google search q=mechanics+site:openeuphoria.org
a google searchbox would probably be a good idea.
the manual and wiki have sections on developing euphoria, probably outdated. see the sourceforge rapideuphoria dev maillist
although nonsense is tolerated even encouraged on freenode #euphoria is is not a requirement.
3. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Dec 19, 2008
- 1259 views
- Last edited Dec 20, 2008
google search q=mechanics+site:openeuphoria.org
a google searchbox would probably be a good idea.
the manual and wiki have sections on developing euphoria, probably outdated. see the sourceforge rapideuphoria dev maillist
although nonsense is tolerated even encouraged on freenode #euphoria is is not a requirement.
I believe a native search function was added to euforum several months back.
However, the translated version of recent euforums still lock up or crash (probably due to issues with 4.0 translator that haven't been hunted down and isolated yet), and therefore can't be used so we are stuck with this old version. (The alternative would be to use the bound version of euforum but that is a significant performance impact.)
4. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Dec 19, 2008
- 1197 views
- Last edited Dec 20, 2008
With the new promising version of euphoria out in the open, how do I report bugs? Can anybody contribute? How does one become a developer? And if I have no desire to become one, can I still make suggestions or smaller contribution, and to whom? With Rob apparently out of the loop, who decides what goes in and what is kept out? Do you have a set of rules, or just a committee, do you vote on it? A fat FAQ file would be nice, but do not ask me to join a chit-chat group of any kind - with different time zones coupled with a low tolerance for nonsense it's not an option for me. jiri
Off the top of my head, I think the following is true:
Anybody can report bugs and contribute. If you don't want to get on the developers mailing list, you can just report bugs on euforum as you find them. (There is also a bugs report page on the rapideuphoria sf.net site.)
Anyone can become a developer with Rob's approval. The usual approach is to just email the developers list and ask (and cc Rob to make sure he sees it). Note that you need to have an sf.net account to become a developer.
Suggestions from anyone are welcome on euforum or on the developer's list. The same applies to code patches. However, only a developer can directly commit changes to the code into the svn repository that is hosted on sf.net
Major features require a vote on the developer's list followed by a vote on euforum.
5. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jiri Dec 20, 2008
- 1192 views
google search q=mechanics+site:openeuphoria.org
a google searchbox would probably be a good idea.
A good try to make me look like an idiot who does not know how to search the internet! Unfortunately your suggestion does not answer any of my questions.
@jimcbrown: Thanks for your recollections, appreciated. jiri
6. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Dec 21, 2008
- 1175 views
Jiri,
1st. there is no need to insult people who try to help. 2nd, I wrote the forum software after looking at many to install. We did not want anything complex. We do not need multiple forums. We wanted things to be integrated, for example the user accounts on the wiki and forum, the formatting on the wiki and forum, links mentioned in the wiki linking to the forum and the other way around, etc...
You are not hurting anyone's feelings. The forum is a work in progress. Search was added, as Jim has said, but there has been an internal problem that has not yet been sorted out. Further, when search is online, it will search the forum, the manual and the wiki. Something we couldn't do (to my knowledge) with other canned forum software.
What would you suggest? As I said previously, we are few in developers and would appriciate more help.
Jeremy
7. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jiri Dec 22, 2008
- 1153 views
Jiri,
1st. there is no need to insult people who try to help. 2nd, I wrote the forum software after looking at many to install. We did not want anything complex. We do not need multiple forums. We wanted things to be integrated, for example the user accounts on the wiki and forum, the formatting on the wiki and forum, links mentioned in the wiki linking to the forum and the other way around, etc...
You are not hurting anyone's feelings. The forum is a work in progress. Search was added, as Jim has said, but there has been an internal problem that has not yet been sorted out. Further, when search is online, it will search the forum, the manual and the wiki. Something we couldn't do (to my knowledge) with other canned forum software.
What would you suggest? As I said previously, we are few in developers and would appriciate more help.
Jeremy
Sorry, Jeremy, I did not want to insult you - how could I guess you were trying to compile a vital piece of software with an alpha version of the compiler? Why don't you use the stable 3.1.1 version until you get the bugs out? The lack of the search facility is, I suspect, a big turn-off for both newcomers as well as the people who are returning, hoping to see a bit of progress. jiri
8. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Dec 22, 2008
- 1146 views
Jiri, no insult here, I was speaking of your comment to ne1uno.
About using 4.0. 4.0 is too nice not to use and has proven stable in every other area we have used it. Further, the forum has been a great project to help debug 4.0, making 4.0 a very usable product, even in the alpha stages. We have always had a working copy of the forum and it has not suffered in any way, except for the search feature which is an addition.
Looking at how simple the forum is in 4.0, I would not want to write it in 3.x. I am very glad it was able to be completed in 4.0. Search will come, but it's not there yet. Those who have wanted to search have used google effectively, as you were given an example of pretty quickly after your initial post.
Jeremy
9. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by bernie Dec 22, 2008
- 1113 views
Jiri, no insult here, I was speaking of your comment to ne1uno.
About using 4.0. 4.0 is too nice not to use and has proven stable in every other area we have used it. Further, the forum has been a great project to help debug 4.0, making 4.0 a very usable product, even in the alpha stages. We have always had a working copy of the forum and it has not suffered in any way, except for the search feature which is an addition.
Looking at how simple the forum is in 4.0, I would not want to write it in 3.x. I am very glad it was able to be completed in 4.0. Search will come, but it's not there yet. Those who have wanted to search have used google effectively, as you were given an example of pretty quickly after your initial post.
Jeremy
Jeremy:
Is the source available for the search and forum code ?
If it is or is not; you should post a link to it.
That way you could get some help from from the users that are
interested in helping you to crush the bugs.
10. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) Dec 22, 2008
- 1101 views
Jeremy:
Is the source available for the search and forum code ?
If it is or is not; you should post a link to it.
That way you could get some help from from the users that are
interested in helping you to crush the bugs.
Agreed. Our "collective foot" could probably knock this out in a weekend. 
-Greg
11. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Dec 22, 2008
- 1120 views
Yes, the source has been mentioned a few times and some have helped out. The search code was actually contributed, I didn't write it. The problem is (that I've had with previous contributors) is that you have to have a web server setup, MySQL and must know both Euphoria and SQL 
Anyway, the code is located at:
http://jeremy.cowgar.com/svn/forum/trunk/
Jeremy
12. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jiri Dec 22, 2008
- 1187 views
Jiri, no insult here, I was speaking of your comment to ne1uno.
Jeremy
Look, Jeremy, I have been around long enough to know what it means when someone tells an old hand that Google is his friend! For the uninitiated, it's either you are a useless old fool or a lazy obnoxious pig. Take your pick. - So who is insulting whom?
I think we better leave it. jiri
13. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Dec 22, 2008
- 1153 views
Look, Jeremy, I have been around long enough to know what it means when someone tells an old hand that Google is his friend! For the uninitiated, it's either you are a useless old fool or a lazy obnoxious pig. Take your pick. - So who is insulting whom?
I think we better leave it. jiri
... jiri, I know it doesn't happen very often, but you are wrong this time. Surprisingly, most people in the world do not use google, and most of those that do are not especially aware of the 'advanced' searching capabilities of google. I sincerely believe that ne1uno was trying to be truely helpful but it seems you took it the wrong way. However, knowing that you are the curmudgeon that you are, I shouldn't be too surprised, eh?
From my experience you are not a "useless old fool" or a "lazy obnoxious pig". You're never useless, lazy or a pig, and only occasionally obnoxious, and I mean that in a nice way of course.
NgÄ mihi mÅ te Kirihimete
14. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by Mike777 Dec 22, 2008
- 1136 views
- Last edited Dec 23, 2008
Look, Jeremy, I have been around long enough to know what it means when someone tells an old hand that Google is his friend! For the uninitiated, it's either you are a useless old fool or a lazy obnoxious pig. Take your pick. - So who is insulting whom?
I think we better leave it. jiri
... jiri, I know it doesn't happen very often, but you are wrong this time. Surprisingly, most people in the world do not use google, and most of those that do are not especially aware of the 'advanced' searching capabilities of google. I sincerely believe that ne1uno was trying to be truely helpful but it seems you took it the wrong way. However, knowing that you are the curmudgeon that you are, I shouldn't be too surprised, eh?
From my experience you are not a "useless old fool" or a "lazy obnoxious pig". You're never useless, lazy or a pig, and only occasionally obnoxious, and I mean that in a nice way of course.
NgÄ mihi mÅ te Kirihimete
I am quite sure that nobody in his/her right mind would attempt to label jiri as useless or lazy. So, jiri is wrong to think that somebody here would. But, at the same time, I'd like to echo jiri's message about a truly functioning search. First, the google search is really quite limited. It falls over flat when dealing with recent posts and the jumble it returns otherwise is just not conducive to a productive environment.
There are various stop gaps and those have been good to have available.
But those who have been visiting (as newcomers or returnees) only have a certain threshold of tolerance. Recognizing the alpha nature of 4.0 that threshold is somewhat flexible. I'd like to suggest that the threshold is being tested by the length of time that the search function has been out of sorts.
I consider the current incarnation another stop gap. A big move in the right direction? Sure. But important to realize that this be ridden to the finish line.
Might be the most important thing to work on at the moment, from the perspective of some, myself included.
Apologize in advance for not being able to help much in the effort.
Along those lines, the current search function limits the search to threads that were started by the name of the input author. At the least, can that be expanded to include all threads where the input author has posted?
Mike
15. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by CChris Dec 23, 2008
- 1127 views
Look, Jeremy, I have been around long enough to know what it means when someone tells an old hand that Google is his friend! For the uninitiated, it's either you are a useless old fool or a lazy obnoxious pig. Take your pick. - So who is insulting whom?
I think we better leave it. jiri
... jiri, I know it doesn't happen very often, but you are wrong this time. Surprisingly, most people in the world do not use google, and most of those that do are not especially aware of the 'advanced' searching capabilities of google. I sincerely believe that ne1uno was trying to be truely helpful but it seems you took it the wrong way. However, knowing that you are the curmudgeon that you are, I shouldn't be too surprised, eh?
From my experience you are not a "useless old fool" or a "lazy obnoxious pig". You're never useless, lazy or a pig, and only occasionally obnoxious, and I mean that in a nice way of course.
NgÄ mihi mÅ te Kirihimete
I am quite sure that nobody in his/her right mind would attempt to label jiri as useless or lazy. So, jiri is wrong to think that somebody here would. But, at the same time, I'd like to echo jiri's message about a truly functioning search. First, the google search is really quite limited. It falls over flat when dealing with recent posts and the jumble it returns otherwise is just not conducive to a productive environment.
There are various stop gaps and those have been good to have available.
But those who have been visiting (as newcomers or returnees) only have a certain threshold of tolerance. Recognizing the alpha nature of 4.0 that threshold is somewhat flexible. I'd like to suggest that the threshold is being tested by the length of time that the search function has been out of sorts.
I consider the current incarnation another stop gap. A big move in the right direction? Sure. But important to realize that this be ridden to the finish line.
Might be the most important thing to work on at the moment, from the perspective of some, myself included.
Apologize in advance for not being able to help much in the effort.
Along those lines, the current search function limits the search to threads that were started by the name of the input author. At the least, can that be expanded to include all threads where the input author has posted?
Mike
I'll simply add that, while advanced google search does return relevant results, any attempt to view them by clicking the provided link 404s out, so the use for the facility is pretty limited. And the page does exist since some context is being displayed on the result page.
CChris
16. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Dec 23, 2008
- 1169 views
I'll simply add that, while advanced google search does return relevant results, any attempt to view them by clicking the provided link 404s out, so the use for the facility is pretty limited. And the page does exist since some context is being displayed on the result page.
I tried translator site:openeuphoria.org and got lots of results which open up just fine for me. There are lots of results there, which tend to look like:
http://openeuphoria.org/EUforum/index.cgi?module=forum&action=flat&id=103411
What sort of links are you getting that don't work?
Matt
17. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by CChris Dec 23, 2008
- 1159 views
I'll simply add that, while advanced google search does return relevant results, any attempt to view them by clicking the provided link 404s out, so the use for the facility is pretty limited. And the page does exist since some context is being displayed on the result page.
I tried translator site:openeuphoria.org and got lots of results which open up just fine for me. There are lots of results there, which tend to look like:
http://openeuphoria.org/EUforum/index.cgi?module=forum&action=flat&id=103411
What sort of links are you getting that don't work?
Matt
Out of fun, I had tried for "obnoxious" at www.openeuphoria.org .
The only returned result is a dead link:
http://www.openeuphoria.org/cgi-bin/esearch.exu?postedBy=cklester&toMonth=4&toYear=5&first_res=1
But here is the context displayed on the google result page, which appears to quote an actual post:
Not the > obnoxious religious claptrap CK Lester & co would like to ram > down our throats. > > jiri >. # 19. Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:59:43 -0600 From: ...
I had tried "StatusBar" as well, and all of the 4 returned results were dead links too. They all involve esearch.exu.
CChris
18. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Dec 23, 2008
- 1100 views
Out of fun, I had tried for "obnoxious" at www.openeuphoria.org .
The only returned result is a dead link:
http://www.openeuphoria.org/cgi-bin/esearch.exu?postedBy=cklester&toMonth=4&toYear=5&first_res=1
But here is the context displayed on the google result page, which appears to quote an actual post:
[snip]
I had tried "StatusBar" as well, and all of the 4 returned results were dead links too. They all involve esearch.exu.
That's interesting. I found that dead link after clicking the "repeat the search with the omitted results included." Since the old search isn't up, it's not surprising that it doesn't work, but I wonder why we get such different results.
In any case, it's fairly easy to only get 'good' results by specifying a more complete url. And a lot of them appear to be pretty old, so I guess that google was able to spider the forum. Try putting this into google's search field:
win32lib site:openeuphoria.org/Euforum
This gives me a bunch of results that all appear to be validI haven't tested them all...
Matt
19. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by CChris Dec 24, 2008
- 1178 views
Out of fun, I had tried for "obnoxious" at www.openeuphoria.org .
The only returned result is a dead link:
http://www.openeuphoria.org/cgi-bin/esearch.exu?postedBy=cklester&toMonth=4&toYear=5&first_res=1
But here is the context displayed on the google result page, which appears to quote an actual post:
[snip]
I had tried "StatusBar" as well, and all of the 4 returned results were dead links too. They all involve esearch.exu.
That's interesting. I found that dead link after clicking the "repeat the search with the omitted results included." Since the old search isn't up, it's not surprising that it doesn't work, but I wonder why we get such different results.
In any case, it's fairly easy to only get 'good' results by specifying a more complete url. And a lot of them appear to be pretty old, so I guess that google was able to spider the forum. Try putting this into google's search field:
win32lib site:openeuphoria.org/Euforum
This gives me a bunch of results that all appear to be validI haven't tested them all...
Matt
Given the nature of the reported links, it seems that google spiders earlier search results cached in various places. And I don't think the same query will bring up the same results depending of where in the world it is made from.
What I had been doing is:
- get author/date/time info from google
- search Topica for such a message if it isn't too old.
Not exactly the most straightforward indeed. The bonus with Topica though is that you always get an individual message when search succeeds, so that the url can be passed around easily.
CChris
20. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Dec 24, 2008
- 1115 views
Well, the forum has search now, so this thread is a bit obsolete?
Also, the search will eventually work to search messages, manual and the wiki.
Jeremy
21. Re: forum with no search function?
- Posted by Mike777 Dec 24, 2008
- 1059 views
Well, the forum has search now, so this thread is a bit obsolete?
Also, the search will eventually work to search messages, manual and the wiki.
Jeremy
Ah, but this is the perfect time to ensure that our favorites are given a +1.
For example, I'd like to be able to search for messages, not just for threads.
And while an AJAX approach to expanding found threads/messages would be nice, in the absence of that, the ability to do what the old search did [display up to 25 messages uncollapsed in one view] would be very helpful.
Mike
