1. Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1257 views
While we are at it, taking polls, let's start another. Do you use DOS only programs? By this I mean true DOS programs, not just console programs that can be run with exwc.exe. For instance, ed.ex is not a DOS program, it is a console program. LangWars is a DOS program, it runs only in DOS or DOS mode (Windows 9x, 2000, XP). Now as a side note, DOS mode is not available on Windows Vista and up, thus programs like LangWars no longer function.
We are not taking this poll to determine anything about dropping or keeping DOS support. It's more just out of curiosity as the discussion has come up multiple times on the dev list about how many people use the DOS only features of Euphoria and no one really knows.
Jeremy
2. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1255 views
I'll start this one too 
... I use many console applications, but never a DOS only program. Just about any program I use will work cross-platform on Windows, Linux and OS X.
Jeremy
3. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1209 views
While we are at it, taking polls, let's start another. Do you use DOS only programs? By this I mean true DOS programs, not just console programs that can be run with exwc.exe. For instance, ed.ex is not a DOS program, it is a console program. LangWars is a DOS program, it runs only in DOS or DOS mode (Windows 9x, 2000, XP). Now as a side note, DOS mode is not available on Windows Vista and up, thus programs like LangWars no longer function.
We are not taking this poll to determine anything about dropping or keeping DOS support. It's more just out of curiosity as the discussion has come up multiple times on the dev list about how many people use the DOS only features of Euphoria and no one really knows.
Jeremy
I use them when I am in DOS ... but this is rare. (I am usually only in DOS to support the DOS support in Eu, in fact.)
4. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by twbeaty Aug 13, 2008
- 1230 views
Hello.
I haven't used a pure DOS app in quite a while. That having been said, I feel it might be a bit premature to stop support for it. Most who I've spoken to who like Windows seem to prefer anything over Vista, and therefore would still have a DOS mode. And there is FreeDOS ... and perhaps ReactOS? Not sure about that one and a DOS mode, though for some odd reason, I seem to remember it being layered over FreeDOS? Might be wrong on that one.
- Travis.
5. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1223 views
I haven't used a pure DOS app in quite a while. That having been said, I feel it might be a bit premature to stop support for it. Most who I've spoken to who like Windows seem to prefer anything over Vista, and therefore would still have a DOS mode. And there is FreeDOS ... and perhaps ReactOS? Not sure about that one and a DOS mode, though for some odd reason, I seem to remember it being layered over FreeDOS? Might be wrong on that one.
Yes, we are not considering dropping support for it. We just want to get some idea of the numbers. BTW... I may be in the minority, but in regards to Vista? Wow, what an upgrade. If I had to use XP on my box, you would never see me in windows. XP is junk. Vista simply works. I have been using vista for ~6 months now and I literally have not had 1 single OS crash yet. XP? All the time. Further, XP is a huge pain to install as it knows nothing about my hardware. Audio, graphics, firewire, bluetooth, network card all do not work until I go on a terrible driver hunt. Vista? Install and everything worked perfectly. Not to mention the UI refinements (no not the GUI appearance, I mean the core changes that allow me to work faster). Anyway, I try to give a plug for Vista because I think it has gotten a bad rap due to people trying to run it on computers many years old.
Now, as for DOS support in Eu? If it were solely my vote, it would be gone and 3.x would be the last version to have anything DOS specific, but that's not the case and many think it should stay, so it's not even been brought up for a vote being support is so strong for it.
Jeremy
6. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by m_sabal Aug 13, 2008
- 1224 views
Mostly using DOSEmu, when I'm working on something graphics related (like fractals) that have a few example programs in the archives. Anything new, I use EuGTK.
7. Caution: OT: Vista (was Re: Do you use DOS only programs?)
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1212 views
BTW... I may be in the minority,
It would seem so.
but in regards to Vista? Wow, what an upgrade. If I had to use XP on my box, you would never see me in windows. XP is junk. Vista simply works. I have been using vista for ~6 months now and I literally have not had 1 single OS crash yet. XP? All the time. Further, XP is a huge pain to install as it knows nothing about my hardware. Audio, graphics, firewire, bluetooth, network card all do not work until I go on a terrible driver hunt. Vista? Install and everything worked perfectly. Not to mention the UI refinements (no not the GUI appearance, I mean the core changes that allow me to work faster).
I guess Vista is maturing. When I last encountered it, Vista was significantly worse than XP in terms of driver compatibility and system stability. (This was many months ago.)
Anyway, I try to give a plug for Vista because I think it has gotten a bad rap due to people trying to run it on computers many years old.
Jeremy
Seeing that modern linux kernels and distros still run on my pentium II, I can hardly blame them.
Of course, thats one of the problems with Windows in general. Hardly Vista specific (even windows 95 had these kinds of teething problems).
Still, I like to be annoying and use the case of Windows XP vs Windows FLP (Fundamentals for Legacy PCs) to claim there is no technical reason Vista couldn't be made to run on the same PCs as w2k.
8. Re: Caution: OT: Vista (was Do you use DOS only programs?)
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1241 views
Seeing that modern linux kernels and distros still run on my pentium II, I can hardly blame them.
Vista will as well, just turn off any modern gui, revert back to the Win 95 styling and you will have no problem (but still a much better interface). Try running a modern linux kernel with a modern KDE GUI w/a few apps and see what happens Won't work, thus you have a whole breed of light weight window managers (which I actually use on my system, cause who needs KDE? Ug.)
Jeremy
9. Re: Caution: OT: Vista (was Do you use DOS only programs?)
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1220 views
Seeing that modern linux kernels and distros still run on my pentium II, I can hardly blame them.
Vista will as well, just turn off any modern gui, revert back to the Win 95 styling and you will have no problem (but still a much better interface).
I wasn't aware that this was even possible. (For some reason, I thought the installer would check the CPU speed and RAM and refuse to allow the install if the system wasn't up to spec.)
If it is possible, and the native GUI runs reasonbly fast on such old hardware, then I have no choice but to concede that Vista represents a major advance in terms of backwards compatibility with older hardware.
Try running a modern linux kernel with a modern KDE GUI w/a few apps and see what happens
I haven't done this in a few years, but last time I tried it the only problem I had was with speed.
Of course, taking 20 minutes to load a web page is pretty bad. Not even I could get used to that.
Won't work, thus you have a whole breed of light weight window managers (which I actually use on my system, cause who needs KDE? Ug.)
Jeremy
Agreed. One of the nice things about UNIX style systems - you still have the (very speedy) lightweight and headless systems. I've never heard of a headless windows server.
Windows 3.1's GUI was the best.
10. Re: Caution: OT: Vista (was Do you use DOS only programs?)
- Posted by shfrance Aug 13, 2008
- 1243 views
from a user view-
In the last six months, Vista has made a number of large "updates", the size of which you could liken to "service packs", and now runs everything I have.
DOSbox handles any DOS programs. (I still blast away in "Blood" occasionally)
11. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1226 views
Anyway, I try to give a plug for Vista because I think it has gotten a bad rap due to people trying to run it on computers many years old.
A lot of that is actually Microsoft's fault for publishing bad minimum requirement specs. Google it.
I also use Vista on one of my work PCs and I think it looks great. I get on that PC maybe once a month, though, so I don't have a lot of time invested in it. My son runs Vista Home Premium at home and has never had a problem with crashes (that I'm aware of).
12. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by ryanj Aug 13, 2008
- 1252 views
I don't use DOS at all anymore, but I'm interested in trying FreeDOS one of these days.
I use Windows Vista, and I have to say it is my favorite windows version. I don't like Windows in general, but if I have to use it, Vista has the best GUI, is very stable ('ve only seen 1 random BSOD since I installed it (I think it was over a year ago) and it has never locked up on me or anything strange like that. In the beginning, there was a lack of drivers for some hardware, but most hardware companies have written drivers by now. My only complaint is that it is a major resource hog, and you betten have a powerful computer. I have an Athlon64 3200+ (2GHz single core) and it seems slow sometimes!
13. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by achury Aug 13, 2008
- 1256 views
I use DOS programs, langwar, games, and some programs I have made for my own use at work, are not generic code, need DOS graphic primitives for things like full screen graph equations, statitistical graphics.
Will be great to have all DOS graphics primitives on Windows for "newbie level" simple graphics.
Something like dosrescue.e adding some missing things and updated to Eu 4.0
14. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 13, 2008
- 1248 views
Almost never. And even then, either by accident, or to try out something in the archives that looks interesting.
15. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by SDPringle Aug 13, 2008
- 1217 views
- Last edited Aug 14, 2008
I stopped using DOS only programs some time ago. Now, I have been using WATCOM and EX.EXE to compile EX.EXE.
16. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by unkmar Aug 13, 2008
- 1229 views
- Last edited Aug 14, 2008
Catch 22:
I use windows. I use linux. I use windows console. (often) I occasionally use DOS programs. I write console apps. I don't write GUI Apps. Too complicated. This puts me stuck between GUI and DOS. I want to write GUI's. Oh, well.
17. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by murphy Aug 14, 2008
- 1224 views
I build and maintain windows boxes (100's) - don't use DOS, except to run fdisk. I maintain websites = no DOS there. I write Linux programs - use an x-term, but that's not DOS either. So the answer is no, I wouldn't miss it if it disappeared.
18. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by canadiancoder Aug 14, 2008
- 1195 views
Yes! I still think DOS is a great platorm for game programming ( 32-bit extended of course!) Full access to hardware, no background processes that are not related to the program thats running etc. Especially with the availability of FreeDOS now. I write games in Euphoria, and put them on a custom FreeDOS boot disk. That way everyone with a PC can run the game in the same O/S environment, so it eliminates platform specific glitches.
I hope the idea of dropping DOS support has never crossed the minds of the Euphoria maintainers :)
19. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by otterdad Aug 16, 2008
- 1160 views
Yes! I still think DOS is a great platorm for game programming ( 32-bit extended of course!) Full access to hardware, no background processes that are not related to the program thats running etc. Especially with the availability of FreeDOS now. I write games in Euphoria, and put them on a custom FreeDOS boot disk. That way everyone with a PC can run the game in the same O/S environment, so it eliminates platform specific glitches.
I hope the idea of dropping DOS support has never crossed the minds of the Euphoria maintainers :)
glad to see i'm not the only black swan who still uses DOS. i use it mainly for custom apps to fix windows when it gets so confused that it can't boot anymore.
20. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by unkmar Aug 16, 2008
- 1177 views
I write games in Euphoria, and put them on a custom FreeDOS boot disk. That way everyone with a PC can run the game in the same O/S environment, so it eliminates platform specific glitches.
Here you go, reboot your computer to play my game, that will never in any way be able to access the internet for any reason. Some games don't need internet. And sharing scores are meaningless.
I never liked the idea of rebooting my computer after playing a game. I had a DOS pacman clone that required a hard reboot to exit the game. I will never run it again.
21. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by canadiancoder Aug 16, 2008
- 1167 views
- Last edited Aug 17, 2008
Any game involving internet access is beyond where I am at right now. I'm just a hobby programmer creating simple retro-style games, and chose Euphoria for it's simplicity, power, and great libraries for games such as SVGA and sound blaster access. I'm not planning on entering any competitions or impressing modern gamers with expectations such as running on modern O/S's without inconveniences such as having to reboot their machines.
22. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by AlanO Aug 17, 2008
- 1165 views
I use lots of console programs, few dos programs. What do you mean by dropping DOS support.. a) Removing all DOS32 code from ex.exe ? b) Removing ex.exe itself? c) Keep ex.exe, but not perform any changes to it? d) Seperate all DOS32 only type functions into a seperate interpreter, and freeze changes, or even a "include dos32.e" ?
Whats the downside of example (c) anyway? Surely the motivation is not to drop ex.exe for disk space ;) If the motivation is to not have to include new changes into the dos32 code, I'd vote for seperating into "include dos32.e"
Cheers Alan
23. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 17, 2008
- 1169 views
I use lots of console programs, few dos programs. What do you mean by dropping DOS support..
There are no discussions of dropping DOS support. I was more curious than anything.
Jeremy
24. Re: Do you use DOS only programs?
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 17, 2008
- 1134 views
I use lots of console programs, few dos programs. What do you mean by dropping DOS support..
There are no discussions of dropping DOS support. I was more curious than anything.
It will be supported as long as someone is willing to support it. Currently, there are people willing to put in work on DOS (I'm not one of them, BTW).
Matt
