1. QuirkBasic...again
>how come you guys don't like BASIC? What language do you think first
>appeared on the IBM PC? Delphi?!?!
Is it functional? YES. Is is usable? YES. Does it have stupid quirks?=
=
YES.
'begin program
print a
'a is a variable
end
'end program
It prints 0. Well, a was not assigned anything. It might have been a
typo. Do you see how subtle bugs in develop?
'begin
for i =3D 1 to 5
print i
next i
print i
'i is 6 !!!
end
'end
This is more elegant, more sensible.
for i =3D 1 to 5 do
? i
end for
Which is cleaner?
I _do_ like some of the natural language stuff
dim month(12) as string or something like that
You feel like you're talking to the computer.
I also like the READ...DATA stuff. That is quick, easy. I still in my
spare time am trying to figure out how I can do a data structure in EU
like:
read name$,wage
while name$ <> "Done"
c =3D c+1
'calculate
read name$,wage
wend
'data
EU is not as _easy_ to set up such a thing as BASIC. I just put the data=
anywhere, and BASIC will read it. But DATA is probably not used in the
real world because no one keeps data in the program, since programs are
turned into executables.
In Euphoria, there are _two_ types of objects: atoms and sequences. Its
simple and rapid.
Some of Euphoria's commands are, well, "archaic". Know the difference
between get and gets, get_key and wait_key? getc, get this, get that. B=
ut
at least I don't have weird reserved strings like inkey$ and real crap li=
ke
that. Its all up to you.
On the flip side, some people complain the lack of things like LTRIM and
RTRIM. Well, make your own function.
I haven't really used types in EU, but I know how. Define a function. I=
just looked. Can you figure out how to define a type in QBasic? What in=
the world is a DOUBLE. I really don't know. Again, back to data types.
Now, you tell me. Learning you don't have to initialize variables is
really good for future programming. Do you agree this is not good
programming practice. Actually, this may be the instructor. Perhaps I
should have a chat with her. She doesn't require initialization of
variables, and I don't even do it.
Also, in Euphoria (AND C), I can have 3rd party or my own library routine=
s.
They are called includes. In QBasic, no way. I'd have to worry about
scope, and paste in the code.
BASIC:
A large hodge-podge of functions, reserved strings, and clutter.
EUPHORIA:
A small toolbox of basic tools you use to build your own tools.
Some people say EU is bloated. Actually, one person did, I remember a
thread called Bloatware. Well, QBasic carries with it ABS, LTRIM, RTRIM,=
and all sorts of crud. Euphoria's philosophy is you build your own
routine.
Now, what to include in the interpreter and what one leaves to the end us=
er
to build is a judgment call.
--Alan
=
2. Re: QuirkBasic...again
QuickBASIC supports '$INCLUDE. Isn't that good enough for you?
_________________
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Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
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3. Re: QuirkBasic...again
A DOUBLE is a 32-bit floating point integer. Saw it in the help file
_________________
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matt1278 at juno.com Euphoria programmer
Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
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4. Re: QuirkBasic...again
why on earth would anyone want to print the value of a variable used in a
for-next loop when it's done? Besides, you can use the ? thing in BASIC
too. Where did you think it came from? C++?!?!
_________________
When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above
matt1278 at juno.com Euphoria programmer
Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
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5. Re: QuirkBasic...again
Hey, it's not like QuickBASIC is TOTALLY dead. Give it a chance. Try
putting EUPHORIA on your resume and see who gives ***YOU*** a job!
There's nothing wrong with BASIC at all(except for it's hopelessly
inefficient COMMAND$ variable). You guys stop griping about how BASIC is
still alive and leave it alone for all i care. How come you guys need to
keep saying QuirkBasic? If you really hate it that much then just stay
away from the issue.
_________________
When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above
matt1278 at juno.com Euphoria programmer
Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
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6. Re: QuirkBasic...again
>Hey, it's not like QuickBASIC is TOTALLY dead. Give it a chance. Try
>putting EUPHORIA on your resume and see who gives ***YOU*** a job!
>There's nothing wrong with BASIC at all(except for it's hopelessly
>inefficient COMMAND$ variable). You guys stop griping about how BASIC is
>still alive and leave it alone for all i care. How come you guys need to
>keep saying QuirkBasic? If you really hate it that much then just stay
>away from the issue.
Matt, no offense.
But you have no clue what you are talking about.
Every univercity student, every professor, every person that knows enough
about IT and programming to make a living out of it, they all dislike Basic.
It are only persons like you, who have no clue what they're talking about.
Who never wondered the purpose of a scope on a variable.
Who never wondered why we need to declare a variable.
Who never saw the consistency of statements of some languages and the lack
of others.
Matt, dont make a fool out of yourself.
We cant discuss about these things, when you have no clue what programming
is about.
Ralf
7. Re: QuirkBasic...again
Matt,
I noticed that one minute I had just checked my messages, and there
were none in the box, and then...
I checked it again and there were 4 messages all from you in the box...
Messages such as:
QuickBASIC supports '$INCLUDE. Isn't that good enough for you?
A DOUBLE is a 32-bit floating point integer. Saw it in the help file
These are stand alone messages that have no relationship to anything else
around them, and are therefore unreadable....I have found that most people
forget exactly what they write after they write it, and so when they read
YOUR message, don't put two and two together and realise it is a response.
That is why people quote back what it is reguarding.
It would also cut back on the number of messages people have to download
if you could get them all (4 in these last two instances) into one message.
It would make people a lot more likely to read your messages as well, if you
have some context to put them with.
As to Basic, I learned on it, but it isn't what this list is all about.
Euphoria is. Glad you like Basic, but hey lets discuss Euphoria on this
list (my opinion).
Monty in Oregon
8. Re: QuirkBasic...again
- Posted by Alan Tu <ATU5713 at COMPUSERVE.COM>
Oct 09, 1998
-
Last edited Oct 10, 1998
>QuickBASIC supports '$INCLUDE. Isn't that good enough for you?
QBasic doesn't. And QuickBasic is big bucks. EU syntax is just easier.
>A DOUBLE is a 32-bit floating point integer. Saw it in the help file
I could learn it, and I am learning QBasic. BUT EU IS EASIER.
>Hey, it's not like QuickBASIC is TOTALLY dead.
QuickBasic is dead as a business application, I'm afraid.
>Give it a chance.
I'm learning QBasic.
>Try putting EUPHORIA on your resume and see who gives ***YOU*** a job!
Will people be impressed with Qbasic/QuickBasic? My point is: EU is more=
elegant, and people who use QBasic/QuickBas
ic have a lot of bad habits to unlearn.
>There's nothing >wrong with BASIC at all(except for it's hopelessly
inefficient COMMAND$ variable).
Yes there is! Uninitialized variables being read as zero, for starters! =
THIS CAUSES BUGS. Say it ain't so!
>How come you guys need to
>keep saying QuirkBasic?
That's me. I'm learning this stuff, and they are, well, some "quirks", O=
K?
>If you really hate it that much then just stay
>away from the issue.
Look, this is the second time I had to start a thread on this, and I'm
saying almost the same things. I don't hate BASIC, I'm learning it. All=
my arguments I've made before, and I've been open to you.
>why on earth would anyone want to print the value of a variable used in =
a
>for-next loop when it's done? Besides, you can use the ? thing in BASIC
>too. Where did you think it came from? C++?!?!
Which is more readable
for...next
or for...end for
Is this the only thing that makes a language great? Not by a long shot! =
But my point is made.
Alan
=
9. Re: QuirkBasic...again
- Posted by Matt Z Nunyabidness <matt1278 at JUNO.COM>
Oct 09, 1998
-
Last edited Oct 10, 1998
>Which is more readable
>
>for...next
>or for...end for
uh, for next. But i'm not talking about for...next or for...end for. Hey,
does Eu let you use :'s?
Man, Eu still lives in the days when BASICers still lived in the
WHILE/WEND era!
_________________
When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above
matt1278 at juno.com Euphoria programmer
Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
O ya, i program in BASIC too
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10. Re: QuirkBasic...again
- Posted by Kevin Sieger <simkin at ZEBRA.NET>
Oct 09, 1998
-
Last edited Oct 10, 1998
Matt Z Nunyabidness wrote:
> >Which is more readable
> >
> >for...next
> >or for...end for
>
> uh, for next. But i'm not talking about for...next or for...end for. Hey,
> does Eu let you use :'s?
>
> Man, Eu still lives in the days when BASICers still lived in the
> WHILE/WEND era!
> ________________
Love this!! Look below...he states that Euphoria is a cut above, yet he now
wants toi basically (no pun on BASIC) state that Basic is better than Eu...
Matt, if you think that Basic is so good, perhaps you are on the wrong list.
There is no sense in arguing which is better - we are all here because we
like Eu, not Basic.
> _
> When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above
> matt1278 at juno.com Euphoria programmer
> Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
> president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
> O ya, i program in BASIC too
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
11. Re: QuirkBasic...again
- Posted by irv at ELLIJAY.COM
Oct 10, 1998
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:09:20 -0400, Matt Z Nunyabidness <matt1278 at JUNO.COM>
wrote:
>Hey, it's not like QuickBASIC is TOTALLY dead. Give it a chance. Try
>putting EUPHORIA on your resume and see who gives ***YOU*** a job!
Matt:
I know you aren't speaking from experience.
BASIC on a resume means drop it into the trashbin, unless there are
also words like POWERBUILDER, C++, ORACLE, ACCESS, COBOL, etc..
Actually, if I was interviewing someone who listed a language I
wasn't aware of - say, "Zooforia",- he or she would get a chance
to explain it to me. If they did a good job of explaining why
it was a useful language, and why it was good for writing certain types of
applications, they would have shown me that:
1. They have the ability to learn new languages (big plus)
2. They have the ability to analyse needs and make judgement calls ('nother +)
Now, since we have: 0 BASIC programs to maintain, but we do have
a real need for quick learners with good judgement, who will we hire?
12. Re: QuirkBasic...again
no comment
_________________
When it comes to programming languages, Euphoria is a cut above
matt1278 at juno.com Euphoria programmer
Webbers: <A HREF="mailto:prezsoft at juno.com">prezsoft at juno.com</A>,
president of SoftCo. All virus proggers should die horrible deaths™
O ya, i program in BASIC too
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13. Re: QuirkBasic...again
I agree with all of those who say that QBasic is dead.
BUT! Don't you ever get rid of that 'Q' or 'Quick' because
then you mean ALL the Basics : eg. GW-Basic or VBasic.
GW-Basic is very easy, easier then QBasic, but it's older.
VBasic (Visual Basic) is wonderfull and you shouldn't criticise it.
I know that EU is far more easier,faster and better that any
programming language, but give BILL a change will ye.....
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14. Re: QuirkBasic...again
>
>I agree with all of those who say that QBasic is dead.
>BUT! Don't you ever get rid of that 'Q' or 'Quick' because
>then you mean ALL the Basics : eg. GW-Basic or VBasic.
PowerBasic is also an excellant version of Basic that I've been using
for far too many years.
