1. some questions...
Hi all,
I'm fairly new to Euphoria and I have one or two (silly ?) questions:
1) For Robert Craig, this is for my curiousity: did you ever think to
write euphoria in euphoria itself ?
2) Since I want to learn more about euphoria, someone can give me a hint
about some useful tool to develop ? No game or graphics please, I'm not
so keen to ...
Many TIA,
Maurizio
2. Re: some questions...
> write Euphoria in Euphoria itself
That's a rather FORTHian idea -- I think it would ultimately degrade runtime,
and I can't really think of why you'd want to. Larry Wall didn't write Perl
in Perl (and I suspect for that reason).
Neat idea, tho'!
--
Cameron Kaiser
http://www.sserv.com/
spectre at sserv.com
--
An all new Spectre Server!
Visit it now: http://www.sserv.com/
3. Re: some questions...
Maurizio writes:
> For Robert Craig, this is for my curiousity: did you ever think
> to write euphoria in euphoria itself ?
That makes sense when you are developing a compiler.
A Euphoria interpreter written in Euphoria would run slower
than the current Euphoria interpreter written in C, and would
need the current interpreter to run it - so there isn't much point.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
4. Re: some questions...
Maurizio
>2) Since I want to learn more about euphoria, someone can give me a hint
>about some useful tool to develop ? No game or graphics please, I'm not
>so keen to ...
How about start with a converter for . HTM to ASCII?
Bye, Art
And follow it up with all the other variations such as .pdf to ASCII
etc??
Arthur P. Adamson, The Engine Man, euclid at isoc.net
5. Re: some questions...
>1) For Robert Craig, this is for my curiousity: did you ever think to
>write euphoria in euphoria itself ?
That's impossible, Euphoria doesn't provide such low level mechanism.
It could interpreter euphoria code, but it would be calling the identical
routines.
This proves that there is no such thing as a perfect programming language.
Their still a very restricted way to express the algorithms in your head.
>2) Since I want to learn more about euphoria, someone can give me a hint
>about some useful tool to develop ? No game or graphics please, I'm not
>so keen to ...
Maybe DirectX support ? 
No, seriously, eh.. maybe a spread-sheet program ??
Or an Norton Commander clone ?
Simple document viewer ?
Help file viewer with hyperlinx for own easy format ?
VB for dos emulator (could be very complex ?)
Converters ?
CD-Player for windows ?
Back-up program ?
Equation editor (if you do have a lot of math experience)
HTML Editor for dos/win ?
Mod player (using modplug dll)
Graphics Demo (using one of the libs)
Clock program (tells the time and draws an analogue clock/digital clock and
lets you change the time/date)
A does my OS support > 2000 program (it first backups all the file-dates,
and the win-regs and all .ini's and .cfg's)
A simple database interface (a nice interface for simple databases)
Extend the GUI-editor with project management or with templates and wizards.
An ASCII game (you need to use grafix all the time)
An simple game where you have to find your way through a maze filled with
objects and enemies (use my mazer engine if you want)
An encoding program
Get an interrupt list and make a program list as much of the system's
information as possible (bios version, mouse driver, screen driver, os+ver,
memory:xms,ems, mouse)
Create an new Euphoria development environment (you could still use David
GUI text-GUI libs, but you could make your own IDE)
A cool screen saver
A program to graphics (eh.. thats a too direct translation, a line of a
function is what I mean)
A program to delete all .tmp en .bak files from all directories on your HD
and list all duplicate files on your HD, further is should pklite every
.exe. (pklite turns an .exe into a runable selfextractor: a program that
selfextracts itself to memory and then begins to execute)
A piano program using the SoundBlaster lib
Make a program for managing an account
Make a menu for your own shareware package (and distribute it 8-))
Put the train time table book into your computer and make a program that
will give you the shortest (and/or cheapest route)
Make an extended batch executor
Make your own command interpreter for using with in MS-DOS Mode..
Make a scrambler program
Make a lingo, bingo, Tetris, boggle, cross-word puzzle program
Make a program that you can use to change the mode and line of the screen.
(when a program leaves you in an ugly mode this will help you or if you want
to get into an alternative mode)
Make an safe interface (David's GUI toolkit) for the normal dos stuff:
Formation, Chkdsk, Scandisk /background, etc.
Make a teach you typing program
Make an PC-tutorial for dummies
I think this should be enough.
Any feel free to use of these ideas, they should all be more or less a
challenge.
I hope this inspires any1..
Ralf
6. Re: some questions...
I'd like to see some way to connect to TCP/IP sockets from DOS....
btw, Has anyone written the headers for winsock.dll, yet?
--
Ryan Zerby, Senior Programmer ryanz at netrex.com
"I want to raise my freak flag, higher and higher! I want to raise my
freak flag, and never be alone" -- TMBG 'How Can I Sing Like A Girl?'
7. Re: some questions...
Maurizio asked:
>>1) For Robert Craig, this is for my curiousity: did you ever think to
>> write euphoria in euphoria itself ?
Ralf replied:
> That's impossible, Euphoria doesn't provide such
> low level mechanism. It could interpreter euphoria
> code, but it would be calling the identical routines.
It would certainly be possible to write a Euphoria interpreter
in Euphoria. In fact, it would be much easier than writing one in C.
The only problem is that it would run slower than one
written in C, and it would need a Euphoria interpreter (or
compiler) before it could run, so it would be redundant
(unless you added new language features to it).
As a mind-expanding exercise one might consider
the following:
Suppose we had a complete Euphoria interpreter written in
Euphoria. Call it ex.ex. You could run it with: ex.exe ex.ex.
You could use it to run *any* Euphoria program. You might
try running (say) lw.ex (language war). But wait a minute -
ex.ex is itself a Euphoria program. Therefore it should be able
to *run itself*.
We could run it on itself and ask it to run lw.ex
(language war).
This idea can be taken to any number of levels.
We could run ex.ex on itself as it runs itself as it runs itself
as it runs itself ... as it runs itself as it runs lw.ex .
The speed of execution of lw.ex would of course drop with each
level of interpreter that we introduced, but it should run correctly
no matter how many levels were involved. (and then consider
running them all in trace mode!)
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
8. Re: some questions...
- Posted by Michael J Raley <mjronline at IT-WORKS.COM>
Jan 13, 1998
-
Last edited Jan 14, 1998
Ryan Zerby wrote:
>
> I'd like to see some way to connect to TCP/IP sockets from DOS....
Look at the package that comes with KALI for DOS...
Tunnels IPX packets to Kali servers on the internet for
Multi-player games.
--
// !NEW! Http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7577 ///////////
// Michael J. Raley's Modular reality Journal //
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
9. Re: some questions...
- Posted by "Graeme." <hmi at POWERUP.COM.AU>
Jan 15, 1998
-
Last edited Jan 16, 1998
At 16:55 14/01/98 -0500, Rob wrote:
>We could run it on itself and ask it to run lw.ex
>(language war).
>
>This idea can be taken to any number of levels.
>We could run ex.ex on itself as it runs itself as it runs itself
>as it runs itself ... as it runs itself as it runs lw.ex .
>
>The speed of execution of lw.ex would of course drop with each
>level of interpreter that we introduced, but it should run correctly
>no matter how many levels were involved. (and then consider
>running them all in trace mode!)
AARRRRRGH! Please! Stop it - my head hurts. 
Graeme
10. Re: some questions...
At 11:46 AM 1/12/98 +0100, Maurizio wrote:
>2) Since I want to learn more about euphoria, someone can give me a hint
>about some useful tool to develop ? No game or graphics please, I'm not
>so keen to ...
>
OK!
How about a command.com replacement - boot directly to EuCom, so we
can build our own (better) C:> prompt and do the usual DIR, MD, CD,
DEL ,etc? Using Cuny's GUI, we could have a nice looking, user friendly
system - checkboxes, warnings and confirmation boxes, etc. One we could
customize for various users (no format c: command, for example, for someone
I know)
To Robert Craig:
If there were a way to dynamically load and unload Eu modules (programs)
then we would be ready to expand that command.com replacement into
a co-operative mult-tasking os!
Since Eu is interpreted/compiled, I guess a module would either have to be
pre-compiled, or maybe, since the compiler is so fast, it might be possible to
suspend the running program, load and compile, then resume operation?
Maybe load a sequence from disk - the sequence being an entire Eu program,
and execute it? Some other way?
Best,
Irv
11. Re: some questions...
Irv Mullins writes:
> If there were a way to dynamically load and unload
> Eu modules (programs) then we would be ready
> to expand that command.com replacement into
> a co-operative mult-tasking os!
> Since Eu is interpreted/compiled, I guess a module would
> either have to be pre-compiled, or maybe, since the compiler
> is so fast, it might be possible to suspend the running program,
> load and compile, then resume operation?
> Maybe load a sequence from disk - the sequence being an
> entire Eu program, and execute it? Some other way?
A Euphoria program can run another Euphoria program
by calling system("ex otherprog.ex", 2). Of course this
requires a new invocation of command.com and the
programs can't share variables or routines.
What you and some others seem to want is the ability
to call a library routine that would load a new
Euphoria file, complete with functions, variables etc.
These symbols would then be made immediately available.
It would also be nice if they could be deleted
when they aren't needed anymore.
Maybe someday. Not in v2.0.
Currently, include statements must appear at the
top level, with a hard-coded filename, and can't
be inside an if statement. You can however do
something like:
if a > b then
system("copy filea.e temp.e", 2)
else
system("copy fileb.e temp.e", 2)
end if
include temp.e
but after including temp.e, you can never go back up
in the main file to make the decision again or
execute any other code prior to the include.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
12. Re: some questions...
At 02:54 PM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>What you and some others seem to want is the ability
>to call a library routine that would load a new
>Euphoria file, complete with functions, variables etc.
>These symbols would then be made immediately available.
>It would also be nice if they could be deleted
>when they aren't needed anymore.
>
Borland Pascal used Overlays - which were (automagically)
loaded into memory when a routine inside them was called,
and unloaded the least-recently used overlay, if space was tight
(read: always)
That was done to save memory for more useful things than
storing unused instructions. Euphoria isn't so limited in memory,
but the ability to dynamically change the program(s) running could
be really neat, especially if the main (firstborn) program could
switch between them on command, or once every 1/10th sec.,
or while they are waiting for input.
Irv
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Tired of Nutscope and Internet Exploder?
For the BEST web browser, go to http://www.operasoftware.com
Visit my Euphoria archives: http://www.mindspring.com/~mountains
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
13. Re: some questions...
Ryan Zerby wrote:
> I'd like to see some way to connect to TCP/IP sockets from DOS....
Check out http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/trumpet/ for DOS related
TCP/IP programming tools.
J-Man Th' Shaman [DiS]
jshaman at phreak.org
PGP key available upon request.
