1. about a tuturial
- Posted by Alan Tu <ATU5713 at COMPUSERVE.COM>
Jan 26, 1999
-
Last edited Jan 27, 1999
If I can find the time, I think I can write professionalish, newbie-ish,
texts on Euphoria. I can start with the assumption that the newbie knows=
about the OS, and that's it. Any takers for a group?
Also, I'd like to make sure that the mouse isn't the only way to run the
tutorial. This makes it impossible for those who can't easily use a mous=
e.
Alan
=
2. Re: about a tuturial
>If I can find the time, I think I can write professionalish, newbie-ish,
>texts on Euphoria. I can start with the assumption that the newbie knows
>about the OS, and that's it. Any takers for a group?
>
>Also, I'd like to make sure that the mouse isn't the only way to run the
>tutorial. This makes it impossible for those who can't easily use a mouse.
I'll work on people with a tutorial. However, a tutorial means learning
somebody something.
And the general trick is you cant. A person needs to teach him/herself it.
We can only 'direct' / 'influence' and 'advise'.
Therefor im not in favor of an 'tutorial' program. I would suggest we use
plain text files, small demo programs, and supply some 'tools' they can use.
Example: a tool that sets up all associations in windows. And maybe a
special tutorial viewer that one could *choose* to use. (which would syntax
color example parts, etc.) Or we could use the RDS approach, and have an
text, html & tut files, each requiring a different program to work with.
And the last point I have is. We're not going to teach Euphoria. We're going
to teach programming using Euphoria.
I myself, have always been extremely critical regarding school-books,
tutorials and bought books.
Often have I borrowed a book on some programming language, to conclude at
the end, that even the writer of the book has no clue what the hell
programming is about. He just re-ordered the manual that comes with the
language, and went in more depth to explain certain things, that manuals
assume you know. Same with school-books. The teach your standard methods,
for standard problems, and then train you in using them as fast as you can.
This is what my math book & teacher do. 'Programming us' and 'tweaking
performance'. While you would think, we need a little more 'ai' in
figurative terms of programming. And exersizes .. ehh... who ever invented
that, must have been suprised he/she learned something. There is not
something more specific to a person, than which excersizes would go into the
doubts of that person.
A tutorial should assist, not dominate the learning behaviour.
I know I sound really cruel about almost all the education currently
available and used (and I prolly sound short-sighted as well .. 
... im
not that cruel. If any one is serious about making a really good tutorial,
and wants to go all the way: contact me.
Ralf
3. Re: about a tuturial
>If I can find the time, I think I can write professionalish, newbie-ish,
>texts on Euphoria. I can start with the assumption that the newbie knows
>about the OS, and that's it. Any takers for a group?
That's a good target group to start with, Alan. We should also assume that
the newbie doesn't understand anything about Windows API. One of the
frustrating things about Windows programming is that while there is a lot of
documentation about the API, but's geared towards the advanced programmer.
This used to be the case with C and C++ before the C in 21 days series of
books came out. I think this tutorial can do that in a chapter or two, with
examples following.
>Also, I'd like to make sure that the mouse isn't the only way to run the
>tutorial. This makes it impossible for those who can't easily use a mouse.
Agreed. You do not know how many times I got my knuckled rapped over that
one regarding the current tutorial :P'
David Gay
4. Re: about a tuturial
Hi Ralf
I would certainly like your assistance with the tutorial if you are willing
to help. I agree the tutorial should not dominate the learning experience.
However, it should not assume someone has enough experience to learn to
program using Euphoria. There will be people out there who will use Euphoria
as their first programming language and it's important to cover those users
as well as those who know BASIC but do not understand Euphoria. Perhaps a
happy balance can be struck by keeping the written text short but relying on
examples to teach instead? This way, the tutorial could be used as an
clarifying document to the manual RDS supplies.
David Gay
5. Re: about a tuturial
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:15:36 +0100, Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen <nieuwen at XS4ALL.NL>
wrote:
>I'll work on people with a tutorial. However, a tutorial means learning
>somebody something.
>And the general trick is you cant. A person needs to teach him/herself it.
>We can only 'direct' / 'influence' and 'advise'.
>
<snip>
>I know I sound really cruel about almost all the education currently
>available and used (and I prolly sound short-sighted as well .. ... im
>not that cruel. If any one is serious about making a really good tutorial,
>and wants to go all the way: contact me.
>
Not cruel at all - just realistic.
People can learn physics from a book - or while keeping a small
airplane from prematurely contacting the ground.
People can learn geometry in high school - or by working with
a carpenter building a house.
Method 2 is usually more effective, albiet less thorough.
If someone wants to learn something badly enough, they will ask
questions. If not, they won't learn, unless motivated by threats
of bad grades, and even then, only enough to get by.
Irv
6. Re: about a tuturial
David & Alan:
As a VERY new Euphoria programmer and one who NEVER programmed an API in my
life, please feel free to put me on the list of "play-testers" to check
readability & clarity of the tutorial.
PS: I am an experienced programmer, but my experience is limited to DOS,
Macintosh, and Mainframe (MVS & VM) applications. Euphoria is very different
from anything I've worked with so far and I really haven't had the time to
get deep into learning it yet.
7. Re: about a tuturial
>PS: I am an experienced programmer, but my experience is limited to DOS,
>Macintosh, and Mainframe (MVS & VM) applications. Euphoria is very
different
>from anything I've worked with so far and I really haven't had the time to
>get deep into learning it yet.
>
Sounds like myself, minus the Mac experience. I am an AS/400 programmer at
my work. But I will be glad to have someone with your background help test
the tutorial once it is done...which incidentally, as Ralf suggests, is a
long way off...good planning and preparation is the key!
David Gay
