1. Cool GUI's

I'm a newbie to programming and I have some questions.
First, let me say that building a really nice GUI is very
important to me. I notice that I can always tell a program
written in VB. IMHO, I think they usually look really lame.

Am I correct that all the "cool" tools are in the MFC toolbox
?? All the applications that I use (CAD/CAM) are written
in C or C+ + and they all seem to have these nifty toolbars,
explorer type panels, etc.

Is there anyway to get these kind of cool GUI tools with
Euphoria ?

jon

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2. Re: Cool GUI's

Jon Banquer wrote:

>Is there anyway to get these kind of cool GUI tools with
>Euphoria ?

Most of these tools are available through the common control DLL. The
'coolbar' (also called the 'rebar') in Explorer needs a separate DLL that's
not part of Windows - it comes with Explorer, but you can distribute it
seperately.

You can access any of these tools through Euphoria. For example, I've just
recently added the toolbar, picture buttons, (emulated) tooltips and
statusbar to Win32Lib - check out the Generic demo for an example of them in
action. I hope to be adding other controls as time becomes available.

-- David Cuny

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3. Re: Cool GUI's

Hi David,

Many of the applications that I use have what
CAD/CAM vendors call a "feature tree". This
feature tree looks kind of like Windows
Explorer but it's in a dockable panel.
Also, it's highly customized for the
application. Instead of folders and files
you have parts, features (a hole feature,
a boss feature, a fillet, etc.) and sketches.

How would something like this be done
in Euphoria ?? Can you have dockable
panels ?? How about dockable toolbars ??
Is there anyway to program the middle
mouse button and pop up an HTML
dialog box ?

> You can access any of these tools through
>Euphoria. For example, I've just recently
>added the toolbar, picture buttons, (emulated)
>tooltips and statusbar to Win32Lib - check out
>the Generic demo for an example of them in
> action.

It's a very, very nice look. Already looks better than
VB. Can the toolbar be made dockable ?? How
about a file tree view like I have with UltraEdit ?
Is that possible to do ?

I also have been looking at your IDE.  I have to
admit that I really want to go with Euphoria but
I know that I am going to want the kind of tools
that I use everyday in my CAD/CAM applications
in my programs.

What do you use for a Windows Editor for Euphoria ?
I downloaded VE Code Editor but I notice that
development seems to have stopped on it ??


jon

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4. Re: Cool GUI's

Jon Banquer wrote:

>Many of the applications that I use have what
>CAD/CAM vendors call a "feature tree".

This is a 'List view'; it's similar to an Explorer 'Tree view', but it uses
bitmap icons. No, I haven't implemented these. I don't think VEL has it
either.


> Can you have dockable panels?

I haven't implemented MDI, and I don't plan to. Microsoft seems to be moving
away from the MDI model and to using tabbed panes for various documents. I
don't know about VEL.


> How about dockable toolbars?

Toolbars are dockable, but I've chosen to implement them in Win32Lib as
sticking to the top of the window. Again, I can't speak for VEL.


> Is there anyway to program the middle mouse
> button and pop up an HTML dialog box?

You can trap any Win32 event.

What's an HTML dialog box, anyway?


> Can the toolbar be made dockable?

Since they toolbars can't float in Win32Lib, no.


> How about a file tree view like I have with UltraEdit ?

The 'List view' is not currently implemented in Win32Lib. I don't think it's
part of VEL yet, either.


> I have to admit that I really want to go with Euphoria but
> I know that I am going to want the kind of tools
> that I use everyday in my CAD/CAM applications
> in my programs.


What sort of application are you writing, and what makes Euphoria so well
suited for it?

Euphoria's support of Win32 is still a bit weak. VEL is ahead of Win32Lib in
the 'cool control' list, but your list exceeds even VEL. If you need all
these widgets, I suspect you'd be better served with some other language.


> What do you use for a Windows Editor for Euphoria?

I use a DOS editor. It's a lot easier on my eyes.


-- David Cuny

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5. Re: Cool GUI's

David,

Has it been your experience that users take libraries
like VEL or your Win32Lib and modify them /
add new features to them, or do they just use them
as is, request more features, etc and make programs
with them ?

The program that I have in mind to create would be
a APT language based program for doing CNC
machining.

Is Visual Win 32 Lib still an on going project ?

jon








----- Original Message -----
From: David Cuny <dcuny at LANSET.COM>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: Cool GUI's


> Jon Banquer wrote:
>
> >Many of the applications that I use have what
> >CAD/CAM vendors call a "feature tree".
>
> This is a 'List view'; it's similar to an Explorer 'Tree view', but it
uses
> bitmap icons. No, I haven't implemented these. I don't think VEL has it
> either.
>
>
> > Can you have dockable panels?
>
> I haven't implemented MDI, and I don't plan to. Microsoft seems to be
moving
> away from the MDI model and to using tabbed panes for various documents. I
> don't know about VEL.
>
>
> > How about dockable toolbars?
>
> Toolbars are dockable, but I've chosen to implement them in Win32Lib as
> sticking to the top of the window. Again, I can't speak for VEL.
>
>
> > Is there anyway to program the middle mouse
> > button and pop up an HTML dialog box?
>
> You can trap any Win32 event.
>
> What's an HTML dialog box, anyway?
>
>
> > Can the toolbar be made dockable?
>
> Since they toolbars can't float in Win32Lib, no.
>
>
> > How about a file tree view like I have with UltraEdit ?
>
> The 'List view' is not currently implemented in Win32Lib. I don't think
it's
> part of VEL yet, either.
>
>
> > I have to admit that I really want to go with Euphoria but
> > I know that I am going to want the kind of tools
> > that I use everyday in my CAD/CAM applications
> > in my programs.
>
>
> What sort of application are you writing, and what makes Euphoria so well
> suited for it?
>
> Euphoria's support of Win32 is still a bit weak. VEL is ahead of Win32Lib
in
> the 'cool control' list, but your list exceeds even VEL. If you need all
> these widgets, I suspect you'd be better served with some other language.
>
>
> > What do you use for a Windows Editor for Euphoria?
>
> I use a DOS editor. It's a lot easier on my eyes.
>
>
> -- David Cuny
>

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6. Re: Cool GUI's

Jon Banquer wrote:

>Has it been your experience that users take libraries
>like VEL or your Win32Lib and modify them /
>add new features to them, or do they just use them
>as is, request more features, etc and make programs
>with them ?

Win32Lib was not written for user modification; I'm in the process of
putting together a library (Llama) that allows for easy user modification.
Unfortunately, it's rather low on my list of priorities at this moment.
Apparently, so is sleep. blink

VEL is written in C++ and requires a DLL. The source has not been released,
so users can't modify the code, even if they wanted to.


>The program that I have in mind to create would be
>a APT language based program for doing CNC
>machining.

Sorry, too many TLAs.


>Is Visual Win 32 Lib still an on going project ?


'Visual Win 32 Lib'?

Perhaps you are getting Win32Lib and VEL confused?

VEL is not my project; it's ongoing but on hiatus. Win32Lib is ongoing.

-- David Cuny

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7. Re: Cool GUI's

> 'Visual Win 32 Lib'?

Visual Win 32 Lib by Stephen Spencer

> >The program that I have in mind to create would be
> >a APT language based program for doing CNC
> >machining

APT = Automatically Programmed Tools.

CNC = Computer Numeric Control

> Win32Lib was not written for user modification; I'm in the process of
> putting together a library (Llama) that allows for easy user modification.

The reason Win32Lib is not written for user modification is ?

> VEL is written in C++ and requires a DLL. The source has not been
>released, so users can't modify the code, even if they wanted to.

I would prefer to work with a library written in a language that I would
be working in. I think it's very important that a user be able to add to,
understand and modify the library that they are working with.

> Unfortunately, it's rather low on my list of priorities at this moment.
> Apparently, so is sleep. blink

What kind of knowledge does it take to write / modify a library ? Are
there any books that cover how to accomplish this task that are written
specifically for the basic language ?

Sleep is overrated :)

jon

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8. Re: Cool GUI's

David Cuny wrote:
> Jon Banquer wrote:

> >Is Visual Win 32 Lib still an on going project ?
> =C2=A0
> =C2=A0
> 'Visual Win 32 Lib'?
> =C2=A0
> Perhaps you are getting Win32Lib and VEL confused?

There used to be a Visual Win 32 Lib, programmed in Visual Basic,
I think, by Stephen Spencer. I haven't heard from it since Last
Christmas.

> =C2=A0
> VEL is not my project; it's ongoing but on hiatus. Win32Lib is ongoin=
g.
> =C2=A0
> -- David Cuny

VEL isn't my project either, it is by Gary Dumer. He is on a
holiday or something like that now, but he promised version VEL006
to be released by the middle or end of october. There is, however,
an 'experimental version' available at his site. Look in the
'recent contribution' from some weeks ago.

 ^  |
/-\<|



 | Gratis e-mail en meer: http://www.dolfijn.nl/
 | Een product van Ilse: http://www.ilse.nl/

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9. Re: Cool GUI's

Hi David,

Thanks for the kind words about VEL.

You're mostly right about VEL... Tree View is not yet implemented, but will
be as will Dockable Toolbars in the future.

BTW... VEL is written in Borland/Inprise Delphi.

Thanks, Gary.

P.S. I'm happy to see Win32Lib moving forward again.

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:21:04 -0700, David Cuny <dcuny at LANSET.COM> wrote:

>Jon Banquer wrote:
>
>>Many of the applications that I use have what
>>CAD/CAM vendors call a "feature tree".
>
>This is a 'List view'; it's similar to an Explorer 'Tree view', but it uses
>bitmap icons. No, I haven't implemented these. I don't think VEL has it
>either.
>
>
>> Can you have dockable panels?
>
>I haven't implemented MDI, and I don't plan to. Microsoft seems to be
moving
>away from the MDI model and to using tabbed panes for various documents. I
>don't know about VEL.
>
>
>> How about dockable toolbars?
>
>Toolbars are dockable, but I've chosen to implement them in Win32Lib as
>sticking to the top of the window. Again, I can't speak for VEL.
>
>
>> Is there anyway to program the middle mouse
>> button and pop up an HTML dialog box?
>
>You can trap any Win32 event.
>
>What's an HTML dialog box, anyway?
>
>
>> Can the toolbar be made dockable?
>
>Since they toolbars can't float in Win32Lib, no.
>
>
>> How about a file tree view like I have with UltraEdit ?
>
>The 'List view' is not currently implemented in Win32Lib. I don't think
it's
>part of VEL yet, either.
>
>
>> I have to admit that I really want to go with Euphoria but
>> I know that I am going to want the kind of tools
>> that I use everyday in my CAD/CAM applications
>> in my programs.
>
>
>What sort of application are you writing, and what makes Euphoria so well
>suited for it?
>
>Euphoria's support of Win32 is still a bit weak. VEL is ahead of Win32Lib
in
>the 'cool control' list, but your list exceeds even VEL. If you need all
>these widgets, I suspect you'd be better served with some other language.
>
>
>> What do you use for a Windows Editor for Euphoria?
>
>I use a DOS editor. It's a lot easier on my eyes.
>
>
>-- David Cuny

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10. Re: Cool GUI's

Hi Jon,

The VEL feature list is definitely intended to be extended... but by the
developer, not the end user. I often ask users for their input and
suggestions to extend and improve VEL. That's the only way it will grow. I
hope you'll give it a try and offer suggestions to improve the product. I
want to make VEL a COMPLETE library for the future, but I've only been at
it for a few months so it will take some time to get there.

Thanks, Gary.

Jon Banquer <jbtech at MPINET.NET> wrote:

>David,
>
>Has it been your experience that users take libraries
>like VEL or your Win32Lib and modify them /
>add new features to them, or do they just use them
>as is, request more features, etc and make programs
>with them ?
>
>The program that I have in mind to create would be
>a APT language based program for doing CNC
>machining.
>
>Is Visual Win 32 Lib still an on going project ?
>
>jon
>

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11. Re: Cool GUI's

Hi Gary,

>Tree View is not yet implemented, but will
>be as will Dockable Toolbars in the future.

I would consider these a must for the application
I have in mind and would like to build.

Would you describe VEL as basically an easier
and time saving way for a user to interface with the
Windows API ?

I have been considering picking up Petzold's
book on programming Windows. Seems to me that
the more knowledge I have about programming the
Windows API, the better off I would be. The latter
would hold especially true if I discovered what I
needed is not available in VEL or Win32Lib and
won't be anytime soon.

jon



----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Dumer <dumer9354 at MY-DEJA.COM>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Cool GUI's


> Hi David,
>
> Thanks for the kind words about VEL.
>
> You're mostly right about VEL... Tree View is not yet implemented, but
will
> be as will Dockable Toolbars in the future.
>
> BTW... VEL is written in Borland/Inprise Delphi.
>
> Thanks, Gary.
>
> P.S. I'm happy to see Win32Lib moving forward again.
>
> On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:21:04 -0700, David Cuny <dcuny at LANSET.COM> wrote:
>
> >Jon Banquer wrote:
> >
> >>Many of the applications that I use have what
> >>CAD/CAM vendors call a "feature tree".
> >
> >This is a 'List view'; it's similar to an Explorer 'Tree view', but it
uses
> >bitmap icons. No, I haven't implemented these. I don't think VEL has it
> >either.
> >
> >
> >> Can you have dockable panels?
> >
> >I haven't implemented MDI, and I don't plan to. Microsoft seems to be
> moving
> >away from the MDI model and to using tabbed panes for various documents.
I
> >don't know about VEL.
> >
> >
> >> How about dockable toolbars?
> >
> >Toolbars are dockable, but I've chosen to implement them in Win32Lib as
> >sticking to the top of the window. Again, I can't speak for VEL.
> >
> >
> >> Is there anyway to program the middle mouse
> >> button and pop up an HTML dialog box?
> >
> >You can trap any Win32 event.
> >
> >What's an HTML dialog box, anyway?
> >
> >
> >> Can the toolbar be made dockable?
> >
> >Since they toolbars can't float in Win32Lib, no.
> >
> >
> >> How about a file tree view like I have with UltraEdit ?
> >
> >The 'List view' is not currently implemented in Win32Lib. I don't think
> it's
> >part of VEL yet, either.
> >
> >
> >> I have to admit that I really want to go with Euphoria but
> >> I know that I am going to want the kind of tools
> >> that I use everyday in my CAD/CAM applications
> >> in my programs.
> >
> >
> >What sort of application are you writing, and what makes Euphoria so well
> >suited for it?
> >
> >Euphoria's support of Win32 is still a bit weak. VEL is ahead of Win32Lib
> in
> >the 'cool control' list, but your list exceeds even VEL. If you need all
> >these widgets, I suspect you'd be better served with some other language.
> >
> >
> >> What do you use for a Windows Editor for Euphoria?
> >
> >I use a DOS editor. It's a lot easier on my eyes.
> >
> >
> >-- David Cuny
>

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12. Re: Cool GUI's

Hello Jon,

On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:11:39 -0400, Jon Banquer <jbtech at MPINET.NET> wrote:

>Hi Gary,
>
>>Tree View is not yet implemented, but will
>>be as will Dockable Toolbars in the future.
>
>I would consider these a must for the application
>I have in mind and would like to build.
>
>Would you describe VEL as basically an easier
>and time saving way for a user to interface with the
>Windows API ?
>

I would describe it that way... but you should try it and decide for
yourself. As I said, VEL is relatively new and needs time to grow. But I
have high expectations for it as it evolves. Your, and others, input is
invaluable.

>I have been considering picking up Petzold's
>book on programming Windows. Seems to me that
>the more knowledge I have about programming the
>Windows API, the better off I would be. The latter
>would hold especially true if I discovered what I
>needed is not available in VEL or Win32Lib and
>won't be anytime soon.
>

I can't disagree with your logic for wanting to learn the basics, but after
you dabble awhile, I think you'll see the benefits of an established visual
library. All the hard work has already been done for you.

Gary.

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13. Re: Cool GUI's

Hi, Jon.  Just so you know, I picked up Petzold at a Borders sale for $3.99!
Keep your eye out.  I found out about it on this list.

Another good book that I got is "Windows 98 Programming from the Ground Up"
by Herbert Schildt.  It is pretty good for the beginner and I think that
most of the examples will work with Win95 if you don't have '98.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Banquer <jbtech at MPINET.NET>
To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Cool GUI's


>I have been considering picking up Petzold's
>book on programming Windows. Seems to me that
>the more knowledge I have about programming the
>Windows API, the better off I would be. The latter
>would hold especially true if I discovered what I
>needed is not available in VEL or Win32Lib and
>won't be anytime soon.
>
>jon


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