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Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:00:47 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:00:47 -0500
From: Greg Haberek <ghaberek at gmail.com>
Reply-To: Greg Haberek <ghaberek at gmail.com>
To: euforum at topica.com
Subject: Re: I want it all, and I want it NOW!
In-Reply-To: <775875710-1463792638-1101409565 at boing.topica.com>
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Amen! Thank you for putting things into perspective. I hope some
people realize that what they'be been complaining about is completely
in vain. Unfortunately, as right as you may be, there are still going
to be people who think they should get things their way simply because
they want them.
I, for one, am staying around. Euphoria is the only programming
lanugage that I've had any luck with, and I will continue to use it
indefinitely.
~Greg
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:06:05 -0800, Georg Wrede
<guest at rapideuphoria.com> wrote:
> ============ The Euphoria Mailing List ============
>
> posted by: Georg Wrede <georg at iki.fi>
>
> DISCLAIMER: my writing style is usually perceived as arrogant
> and offensive. And this post in particular may offend folks.
> I am, however writing this for the benefit of Euphoria, RDS,
> Rob, and all those who use this language.
>
> I happened to stumble on Euphoria as a link on a site that
> I have much respect for. Had the link not been on such a
> page, I would not have bothered to even look. Why?
>
> Because the language has a childish, almost stupid name.
> Because IIRC, the link said easy programming, or some such.
>
> _All_ ads promise easy programming. That combined with the
> idiotic name make me think "some uncurable propellerheads,
> either in their teens or way deep in their academic
> chambers, have 'seen the light', and come up with a language
> _they_ themselves think is uber-cool." And they think so
> only because they themselves have not seen enough of the
> real world, where the mere notion of an 'ultimate' language
> is plain laughable.
>
> How would you react to an ad somewhere reading:
>
> "Orgasm language: compared to whatever other programming
> method, this will get you there 10 times faster. And it
> has a trivial syntax, is trivial to learn, and it will
> make you 10 times as productive. CLICK HERE to come!"
>
> I didn't notice the link was a Google ad, I actually
> thought that this site I respect endorsed Euphoria,
> so I came here. And gave it a thorough look. I got convinced
> this language is what I've been looking for -- for ages.
>
> After two days of studying Euphoria I bought the compiler.
>
> Now, on this forum, I see old disgruntled followers, planning
> mutiny.
>
> As I see it, writing the front-end in Euphoria must have taken
> a long time. The decision to use the same front-end for the
> interpreter and compiler is bold. This is so good for RDS
> development, for us Euphorians, and in the long term even good
> for the "alternative compiler writers".
>
> Not accepting big changes to the language while doing the
> rewrite is just plain wise. I would not be surprised if 2.5
> final is only about this restructuring, and 2.6 only about
> speed improvements, and then 2.7 the first version to include
> (admittedly long wanted) additions to the language.
>
> Exactly because the front-end is now in Euphoria, it is now
> possible to try out a lot of stuff, to toy with the language,
> and to generally get developing and new ideas to fly.
>
> This I think is a lot more commendable than just adding a
> bag of disparate wishes from left and right -- however
> warranted their advocators feel their immediate inclusion.
> (Or even if we all feel. _Somebody_ (i.e. Rob) must keep
> the priorities straight.)
>
> Toy language or not?
>
> The other day I read (again) about the Brainf**k language.
> Now, there's a toy language. Or, then again not. (I lost
> the link, sorry.) The page described how this language can
> be used for many things.
>
> OTOH, hardly anybody would call C++ a toy language.
> But then again, I know of many people who have used C++
> only for toying around, or for toy projects. Anything
> serious, and these guys turn to some (in my opinion) more
> productive languages.
>
> Toyness is in the eye of the beholder. What can I say.
>
> To buy or not to buy?
>
> There are people who cannot buy the commercial version.
> That's ok. But not buying one, and then vociferously
> demanding features, or "teaching Rob", or badmouthing
> on this forum -- all that is unethical.
>
> Some people have their reasons for not buying. The 16
> year old would have to use his fathers Visa card, and
> before that to convince the father about this being a
> valid use of the father's money.
>
> Then there are people in countries where you just don't
> get a Visa card. Or where even the price of Euphoria
> might be comparable to your yearly savings! Or where
> merely getting on the Internet is a major hassle.
>
> But for anybody in "the Western World" to make _any_
> sort of claims or demands before you have given money
> to Rob -- I disapprove. (Oh, you are poor? So skip a
> couple of beers next week.)
>
> [[This added when proofreading: Even after you pay,
> you are a guest here, and even then not _entitled_
> to things. You have only paid for what he has already
> accomplished for you.]]
>
> We are Rob's guests here. I mean, he could have had
> this forum only for paid customers, right?
>
> Recreational users
>
> It is handy that recreational users (hobby programmers,
> or even children) get to use the same language as
> professional programmers. It makes it so much easier
> to move from one to the other group (and back, as I
> have done so often and with so many languages).
>
> But if you want to make money, then buy the licensed
> version. No splash-wait, no revealed code. The free
> version is for free stuff, whether it is your recreation
<snip>
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