1. [OT] masks 'n stuff

I have always been rather sceptical of the benefit of wearing masks by joe public.

One study shows wearing a mask can increase particle emission by as much as 492%

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7

Homemade masks fare particularly badly (see what I did there?) in Figure 4.

Most people are surprised to learn that the outside of a worn mask is more infectious than the inside.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85814 (search for "Interestingly")

(My layman explanation is any virus on the inside is bombarded with cold dry oxygen rich air and low pressure every time the mask wearer inhales, quickly drying out/killing it, whereas that effect is much reduced on the farside.)

While I could readily accept that face masks reduce airborne transmission for about one hour, joe public does not replace and bin/wash masks every hour, has a strong tendency to reduce social distancing while wearing a mask, and almost certainly increases the likelihood of contact transmission. Remember these?

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1243972193169616898

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-face-masks-increase-risk-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html

I am just not buying the idea that a slightly different surface protein on the Kent variant makes it five times more infectious, or however many more times that it would need to be if masks were actually effective.

If I am wrong about masks (as worn by joe public), please explain to me why (here in the UK) the November peak (when everyone was wearing masks and more treatments and equipment were available and 10-15% should have been immune) was so much worse than the first wave (when hardly anyone was wearing masks and absolutely nobody had any antibodies). It is all just politics, what scant real medical proof exists has been totally perverted.

On a lighter note, apparently there is no benefit to wearing a parachute...

Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jumping from aircraft: randomized controlled trial

https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094

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2. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

Hi Pete when reading a scientific journal, always jump to the conclusion first, before reading the rest and selecting details that match your beliefs. The first paper concludes that wearing a mask is beneficial in reducing the particle emission, so one should continue to wear masks.

Masks will not halt the transmission of Covid-19, this has been demonstrated by the full protection outfits worn by health workers (especially in the early stages of the pandemic), yet still catching the disease, whether from the treating of patients, or outside.

However, the advice to wear masks was, I believe, a political knee jerk reaction, but what else could we do, or politicians be seen to be doing. Perhaps this.

https://www.thenational.scot/video/202592/

Practically, keep your distance, don't touch, minimise contact time, and put alcohol on your hands (open to interpretation as you like).

I'm not preaching by the way. I am one of the lucky ones to have had Covid-19 asymptomatically despite wearing a mask and an utterly ridiculous plastic pinafore all the time while at work. But I have seen the effects of the disease on close associates and their families. So if wearing a mask might help, wear one.

Cheers

Chris

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3. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

Unfortunately, around here, cloth masks are very common (except for healthcare workers).

Cloth masks can harbor viruses for 2 or 3 days, according to most studies, unless washed. I doubt that everyone washes their mask every night. So people are carrying around reservoirs of active virus to add to their exhalations.

Then consider that the masks muffle people's voices, so they have to repeat everything. That roughly doubles the chances for virus emission when conversing.

So, yeah. It's mostly political theater, because politicians will never admit that there is anything they can't control.

That said, I wear real surgical masks when I go out. So do the doctors. You won't find a surgeon wearing a worn-out T-shirt over his head when he slices you open.

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4. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

ChrisB said...

Hi Pete when reading a scientific journal, always jump to the conclusion first, before reading the rest and selecting details that match your beliefs. The first paper concludes that wearing a mask is beneficial in reducing the particle emission, so one should continue to wear masks. [...]

+1

@petelomax

  • Please wash or disinfect your hands regularly.
  • Regularly disinfect surfaces that are frequently touched.
  • Sneeze into the crook of your elbow.
  • ... yadda, yadda ...

It is true that the surface of your mask can be infectious.
Therefore, touch only the ear straps and change the mask regularly.

Wear a mask. It protects you and others.

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5. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

I should have said I have no issue with social distancing, washing hands, getting the jab, or wearing a mask properly for at most 1 hour.

What gets my back up is seeing people fidget with their mask, take it off and stuff it in their pocket when they leave a store, and fish it out and put it back on when they get to the next.

We would all be better off if they simply did not bother, I claim.

Wearing a mask might be good advice but is it a smart law or government policy?

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6. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

At the very start of the pandemic, the WHO was saying wait for it, wait for it, ..., its not a pandemic yet. At that time Expats were persuaded to collect masks and ship them to Wuhan. Later, our politicians put in an order for masks--two empty cargo planes of "masks" were shipped to us (due to problems in loading the planes).

Short answer: masks are effective.

Governments have a duty to enforce mask usage. Even if they are used with a low efficiency, the impact on dampening a pandemic is profound.

But, what followed was a tragicomedy of politician behavior.

be well
_tom

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7. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

petelomax said...

Wearing a mask might be good advice but is it a smart law or government policy?

In the short term, yes. Even from a strictly "economic" perspective, having your constituents not wear a mask is far more detrimental to an economy than temporarily requiring them. You can't run a government if your constituents are all dead.

What's unfortunate is that A) some people seem to conflate inconvenience with oppression (and it's just... not) and B) even more people seem to have trouble grasping the nuance of safe mask-wearing protocol (as discussed, doing it wrong enough is actually worse than not wearing a mask at all).

-Greg

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8. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

Regardless of the mask type or claimed efficacy, most people are not wearing them properly, defeating any benefit. They seem to not understand the point is that all the air you inhale and all the air you exhale is to pass thru a filter, not pass thru gaps between you and the filter. So if your reading glasses fog when you exhale, i'll bet $100 your N95's built-in aluminum nose clip isn't adjusted right, and it's about as effective as wearing the mask over your ear. And facial hair simply doesn't allow a seal to the skin.

I was wearing an activated carbon fume respirator outside because of the trash fire smoke, which has contributed to killing 3 people in this neighborhood. But i am not aware of anyone here dying from Covid19.

Kat

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9. Re: [OT] masks 'n stuff

One thing good has come out of this. Pre-Covid, you could go to the Doc. and sit for 30 minutes in a waiting room full of people coughing and sneezing, passing around everything from the common cold to TB.

Now you go, announce your arrival by phone, and wait in your car until a nurse comes for you, and tests you for fever before you even go into the building. They won't even let you open doors for yourself, so you won't be touching things.

It seems like doctors have finally been forced to recognize the germ theory!

Hope that is a permanent change.

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