1. win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

Exe programs built using Euphoria 3.1 and win32lib no longer function on my Dell laptop running Windows 7 Home Premium, service pack 1. Neither do the demo .exw demo examples that come with win32Lib. For example, attempting to run boxes.exw results in a message stating “Win32Lib AppWindow – Fatal error. Error code 482. CreateWindow in createWindow failed. Win32Lib v0.70.4. 17-Jun-2008.” My computer then is in an unstable state and I need to restart. I suspect this recent behaviour is the result of something that has been changed by some newly installed software, but I am at a loss to know where to start looking for the cause. Any help would be gratefully accepted.

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2. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

Hello rweavers,

I am using:

Euphoria ver 3.1.1 
win32lib-- Version:     0.70.4a 17/June/2008 
on a Dell Laptop et1831 Windows7 Home Premium

With no problems at all.

Don Cole

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3. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

Hello rweavers,

Last post had errors.

I am using:

Euphoria ver 3.1.1
win32lib Version 0.70.4a 17/June/2008
on a Dell Laptop et1831
Windows7 Home Preimum

With no problems at all.

Don Cole

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4. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

When I have this problem with users it is usually due to their DEP settings in windows. You might want to look into that. There is an old post here in the forums that has more detail on it.

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5. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

Many thanks ssallen. The DEP setting was the problem. Something must have changed the response to Euphoria as everything worked perfectly until relatively recently. I suspect it may have happened when I changed to the Avast antivirus program.

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6. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

rweavers said...

Exe programs built using Euphoria 3.1 and win32lib no longer function on my Dell laptop running Windows 7 Home Premium, service pack 1. Neither do the demo .exw demo examples that come with win32Lib. For example, attempting to run boxes.exw results in a message stating “Win32Lib AppWindow – Fatal error. Error code 482. CreateWindow in createWindow failed. Win32Lib v0.70.4. 17-Jun-2008.” My computer then is in an unstable state and I need to restart. I suspect this recent behaviour is the result of something that has been changed by some newly installed software, but I am at a loss to know where to start looking for the cause. Any help would be gratefully accepted.

The problem is not with win32lib, rweavers, it is with Windows. When they changed over to a 64 bit system with the Vista OS, they changed the size of the handles, and that followed with each new revision up to Windows 7. I ran across this with all of the programs I wrote for Win98 or XP. When I switched all of my handle values to atoms instead of integers, the program would work fine without having to mess around with downward compatibility issues. It is for this reason that I dropped all Microsoft crap and went to Linux and FreeDOS. I don't like some corporation leading me around by the balls. What's next? Every time they want to corner the software market again, all they have to do is change the OS and all subsequent programs won't work anymore. That's exactly why all of you had to buy new peripherals, like printers or scanners, after the change over. HP, Lexmark, and the rest of them wouldn't update their drivers by increasing the handle size. The whole thing is a scam.

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7. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

A913 said...

The problem is not with win32lib, rweavers, it is with Windows. When they changed over to a 64 bit system with the Vista OS, they changed the size of the handles, and that followed with each new revision up to Windows 7. I ran across this with all of the programs I wrote for Win98 or XP. When I switched all of my handle values to atoms instead of integers, the program would work fine without having to mess around with downward compatibility issues. It is for this reason that I dropped all Microsoft crap and went to Linux and FreeDOS.

That you could get away with using euphoria integers for windows handles was actually simply luck. This sort of thing often failed back in the Windows 98 days. In the early days of Win32Lib, many variables that stored handles were set to be integers, leading to many mysterious failures that could be difficult to reproduce.

Windows handles are documented to be 32-bit values on 32-bit Windows, which means that euphoria integers are not suitable containers, and never have been.

Matt

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8. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

Agreed, but not all newbies know that! Prior to VISTA, Microsoft very seldom had handles that were full dword values, so 99.9% of any program written using integers caused no problems, but after VISTA, they began utilizing full dword values.

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9. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

Microsoft has always documented that handles are 32 bit values and unless specifically documented otherwise you should make no other assumptions about their values. In Windows 98 you could usually get away with using a Euphoria integer but this was only a fortunate accident and not part of the contract. Your can't reasonably blame Microsoft when applications don't follow the rules. I have seen this problem with XP and it probably happened with Windows 2000 as well. It wasn't common but it did happen.

A large number of application compatibility issues are caused by developers assuming that undocumented behavior will never change. Microsoft has actually gone to considerable lengths to ensure that applications that do this will continue to work. They have taken considerable criticism over this. The idea being that they should allow misbehaving applications to fail and thus force developers to follow the rules. But Microsoft is well aware that this won't always happen and they will receive the blame.

The lesson is to follow the rules and you won't get into trouble.

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10. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

LarryMiller said...

Microsoft has actually gone to considerable lengths to ensure that applications that do this will continue to work. They have taken considerable criticism over this.

While this is not really relevant to anything said so far in this thread, M$ certainly deserve all the criticism they get, and more, for HKLM\Software\WOW6432Node.

In case you don't know, if you read/write hklm/software/xxx using a 32-bit app on 64-bit windows, it redirects it to hklm/software/wow6432node/xxx, quite why completely escapes me, and thus if you replace a 32-bit app with its 64-bit version, it loses all its settings. What they don't do is redirect hklm/software/microsoft to hklm/software/wow6432node/microsoft, presumably because they realised that would make their life difficult.

There are also a whole bunch of file system redirects, C:\Documents and Settings is now C:\Users, C:\windows\system32 now holds 64-bit dlls and c:\windows\syswow64 holds 32-bit dlls, loads of fun for the unwary. For a full list see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb756982.aspx. All I am saying is please don't stand there and say m$ did a good job when what they really did was dream up every trick possible to push developers onto 64-bit .NET (which presumably don't cope with spaces in pathnames too well blink)

Another great howler was ODBC: you set up some DSN's, they don't work. Why? Because the ODBC manager visible on the menu is the 64-bit version, you have to hunt in C:\Windows for the 32-bit exe and run that instead.

Pete

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11. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

A913 said...
rweavers said...

Exe programs built using Euphoria 3.1 and win32lib no longer function on my Dell laptop running Windows 7 Home Premium, service pack 1. Neither do the demo .exw demo examples that come with win32Lib. For example, attempting to run boxes.exw results in a message stating “Win32Lib AppWindow – Fatal error. Error code 482. CreateWindow in createWindow failed. Win32Lib v0.70.4. 17-Jun-2008.” My computer then is in an unstable state and I need to restart. I suspect this recent behaviour is the result of something that has been changed by some newly installed software, but I am at a loss to know where to start looking for the cause. Any help would be gratefully accepted.

The problem is not with win32lib, rweavers, it is with Windows. When they changed over to a 64 bit system with the Vista OS, they changed the size of the handles, and that followed with each new revision up to Windows 7. I ran across this with all of the programs I wrote for Win98 or XP. When I switched all of my handle values to atoms instead of integers, the program would work fine without having to mess around with downward compatibility issues. It is for this reason that I dropped all Microsoft crap and went to Linux and FreeDOS. I don't like some corporation leading me around by the balls. What's next? Every time they want to corner the software market again, all they have to do is change the OS and all subsequent programs won't work anymore. That's exactly why all of you had to buy new peripherals, like printers or scanners, after the change over. HP, Lexmark, and the rest of them wouldn't update their drivers by increasing the handle size. The whole thing is a scam.

This is so frustrating. I have been using Euphoria for many years. At one time in the past, I had this problem, but after completely rebuilding my system and reloading all applications, the problem went away for a couple of years. I just finished developing an application last week in v3.1.1 (I have not yet tried v4) and now the problem is back. All of my Euphoria programs now fail. I restored my C: drive from an image when everything was working, and it still fails.

I made a test program from a section of my program (only the part that defines the window and controls) and it fails, even though I changed my test program to declare only sequences and atoms. No integers. I suppose Win32 Lib declares handles as integers, and that is the problem. I could translate my programs into v4, but I have no assurance of success. If nobody posts a solution for me, I will have to bid Euphoria a fond farewell. I am still puzzled why no other compiler or application that I know of has this problem.

Update: It was the DEP setting. I have no idea how this setting survived a complete replacement of my C: drive via image, but it did. In Win7 the setting is found in Control Panel > System > Advanced System Settings > Advanced > Performance Settings > Data Executing Prevention. Choose "Turn on DEP for essential Windows Programs and services only" or choose the other radio button and figure out which program to exempt.

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12. Re: win32Lib Apps Crashing on Startup

lpuster said...

Update: It was the DEP setting. I have no idea how this setting survived a complete replacement of my C: drive via image, but it did. In Win7 the setting is found in Control Panel > System > Advanced System Settings > Advanced > Performance Settings > Data Executing Prevention. Choose "Turn on DEP for essential Windows Programs and services only" or choose the other radio button and figure out which program to exempt.

I reverted to Eu 3.1.1 in Windows only because I never face such problems with this release. I looked at my DEP settings on Windows 10 64-bit using this tutorial: http://www.online-tech-tips.com/windows-xp/disable-turn-off-dep-windows/.

DEP is set and I don't have any problems with Windows 10 64-bits. I'm using the standard combined installer: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/rapideuphoria/Eu3.1-Win32Setup.exe?use_mirror=

Jean-Marc

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