1. Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 26, 2009
- 2031 views
- Last edited Aug 27, 2009
Is there any support for a Eu website where a voted group of humans (not a Creole template system) proofs uploaded webpages, or where a site link points to a user's own site or page hosted elsewhere?
Is there any support for a better search system for the archives on the RDS site, like i wrote 2(?) years ago?
This isn't to deny credit where credit is due, the work done on this site, the amazing work on Eu v4, the origins of Euphoria at RDS and their continued support of earlier versions.
It's to allow more people to contribute. It's so you aren't throttled by creole interpreter, where you can use the same template as the rest of the site on your page, or not. Where if you feel the need to provide a flash video on how to install Eu on dosbox, on win95 on a smartphone, or a tutorial on using a gui interface (your app or Judith's IDE), or anything else prohibited on this site.
Comment, get involved.
useless
2. Re: Eu website
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Aug 26, 2009
- 2053 views
- Last edited Aug 27, 2009
Is there any support for a Eu website where a voted group of humans (not a Creole template system) proofs uploaded webpages
No.
or where a site link points to a user's own site or page hosted elsewhere?
Is there any support for a better search system for the archives on the RDS site, like i wrote 2(?) years ago?
ABSOLUTELY!!! 
Do it! Do it! Do it!
It's to allow more people to contribute. It's so you aren't throttled by creole interpreter, where you can use the same template as the rest of the site on your page, or not. Where if you feel the need to provide a flash video on how to install Eu on dosbox, on win95 on a smartphone, or a tutorial on using a gui interface (your app or Judith's IDE), or anything else prohibited on this site.
Is that stuff really prohibited? Maybe it will just take some authorization by an administrator to let something like a flash video exist on this site somewhere. I don't think there's a blanket denial policy enforced right now... is there?
Kat, do you have a Euphoria web page somewhere on the 'net?
3. Re: Eu website
- Posted by CoJaBo Aug 26, 2009
- 2014 views
- Last edited Aug 27, 2009
Guides for safely allowing flash exist, so that at least shouldn't require admin approval. I assume the Creole parser is easily expendable, so it shouldn't be hard to add.
4. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 26, 2009
- 2006 views
- Last edited Aug 27, 2009
Is there any support for a Eu website where a voted group of humans (not a Creole template system) proofs uploaded webpages
No.
Why not?
or where a site link points to a user's own site or page hosted elsewhere?
Is there any support for a better search system for the archives on the RDS site, like i wrote 2(?) years ago?
ABSOLUTELY!!! Do it! Do it! Do it!
Are you aware I was *repeatedly* banned from #euphoria, where Tiggr could have provided such services?
It's to allow more people to contribute. It's so you aren't throttled by creole interpreter, where you can use the same template as the rest of the site on your page, or not. Where if you feel the need to provide a flash video on how to install Eu on dosbox, on win95 on a smartphone, or a tutorial on using a gui interface (your app or Judith's IDE), or anything else prohibited on this site.
Is that stuff really prohibited? Maybe it will just take some authorization by an administrator to let something like a flash video exist on this site somewhere. I don't think there's a blanket denial policy enforced right now... is there?
Oh heck, right now we cannot get a border area around a text box to make it more readable, with a better layout. I asked for it. CoJaBo asked for it, and he usually fights everything i do. It's prohibited by the creole template code, by inaccessablity of the css code, because once we have fought to get authorised get authorised to contribute, we might use css to trash the site.
So i am saying: make your own page(s) on your own computer do as you like, then move them to a central user community site. Apparently, we will not have that freedom on openeuphoria.org.
Kat, do you have a Euphoria web page somewhere on the 'net?
No, i took it down. I did own openeuphoria.com, but gave it to Derek.
useless
5. Re: Eu website
- Posted by CoJaBo Aug 26, 2009
- 2007 views
- Last edited Aug 27, 2009
Oh heck, right now we cannot get a border area around a text box to make it more readable, with a better layout. I asked for it. CoJaBo asked for it, and he usually fights everything i do. It's prohibited by the creole template code, by inaccessablity of the css code, because once we have fought to get authorised get authorised to contribute, we might use css to trash the site.
Well, I agree here.
Keep in ming that some wiki users might only be semi-trusted, and shouldn't be able to add raw HTML or CSS code to the site. The Creole parser needs to have its own means to safely add stuff like flash video, templates, margins, etc, but just hasn't gotten there yet.
In the mean time, the float margin should at least be fixed to something sensible (like 1em instead of 4px) in the main CSS since the wiki code can't override it.
6. Re: Eu website
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 2002 views
Oh heck, right now we cannot get a border area around a text box to make it more readable, with a better layout. I asked for it. CoJaBo asked for it, and he usually fights everything i do. It's prohibited by the creole template code, by inaccessablity of the css code, because once we have fought to get authorised get authorised to contribute, we might use css to trash the site.
The usual way to ask for enhancements is to submit a request to the tracker. It can then be prioritised and accounted for.
I've now added this one to the list.
The Creole parser needs to have its own means to safely add stuff like flash video, templates, margins, etc, but just hasn't gotten there yet.
Actually the creole parser can do this via its plugin system. However, Jeremy has not implemented any plugins for these features. In creole, a plugin is a tag enclosed by << >> markers. The first word inside these is the plugin's name or id, and everything else inside are parameters passed to the user-defined plugin handler. That handler can return anything it likes and whatever is returned replaces the plugin tag.
In the mean time, the float margin should at least be fixed to something sensible (like 1em instead of 4px) in the main CSS since the wiki code can't override it.
I remember reading that using pixels for positioning is not a good idea because of the varying size of pixels. Using 'em' or 'cm' is fair better.
7. Re: Eu website
- Posted by DanM Aug 27, 2009
- 2000 views
Here's three problems I'm experiencing with the forum:
1. The banner for the forum says, "OpenEuphoria", but the button "home" sticks halfway up INTO the last portion of that text ("-oria"), and it and the button "home" obscure whatever smaller text follows "OpenEuphoria".
2. When I read a post, if the subject text spans two lines, that text completely obscures the posters NAME and date/time.
3. User can't change the SIZE of the font used to display the posts.
If items 1 & 2 are not clear, is there somewhere I could post a pic of what I'm talking about?
Oh, and why is the forum using DOUBLE-SPACING?
Dan
8. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1982 views
Here's three problems I'm experiencing with the forum:
1. The banner for the forum says, "OpenEuphoria", but the button "home" sticks halfway up INTO the last portion of that text ("-oria"), and it and the button "home" obscure whatever smaller text follows "OpenEuphoria".
2. When I read a post, if the subject text spans two lines, that text completely obscures the posters NAME and date/time.
3. User can't change the SIZE of the font used to display the posts.
If items 1 & 2 are not clear, is there somewhere I could post a pic of what I'm talking about?
Oh, and why is the forum using DOUBLE-SPACING?
Dan
Hi Dan, yeas the banner on the forum problem exists here too. And on the wiki, if the page is narrowed, text overlaps and is unreadable. One hopes no one is still using cgi-sized screens.
For remote web posting, try these:
Text sites: http://euphoria.pastebin.com/ http://euphoria.pastey.net/
Image sites: http://imgbin.org/ http://imagebin.org/ http://imageshack.us
still, useless
10. Re: Eu website
- Posted by ryanj Aug 27, 2009
- 1985 views
It's to allow more people to contribute. It's so you aren't throttled by creole interpreter, where you can use the same template as the rest of the site on your page, or not. Where if you feel the need to provide a flash video on how to install Eu on dosbox, on win95 on a smartphone, or a tutorial on using a gui interface (your app or Judith's IDE), or anything else prohibited on this site.
Is that stuff really prohibited? Maybe it will just take some authorization by an administrator to let something like a flash video exist on this site somewhere. I don't think there's a blanket denial policy enforced right now... is there?
Kat, do you have a Euphoria web page somewhere on the 'net?
EuWikiEngine does allow embedding things like that, but as far as i know, it's not enabled on this site. On my personal website, i have embedded google maps, for example (http://fluidae.com/euwiki.cgi?FlatheadValley). I think we should allow google maps, videos, etc. I plan to work on EuWikiEngine in the next month or two.
12. Re: Eu website
- Posted by ryanj Aug 27, 2009
- 1967 views
This is only a test. Please do not read this....oh! too late! 
13. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1959 views
Please delete me!
You mean delete this?
useless
14. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1933 views
You mean delete this?
Hm. I know things like that have happened and it's no reason not to use Creole! Just because it has 1 bug does not mean it's a bad product. I think you are totally missing the point of Creole and the point of a wiki. A wiki is meant to be editable by all people fast. Please read what a Wiki is.
Now, the current bug with Creole (and the forum) is that it does not fully validate the input. So, it allows the mis-use of it's syntax. For instance, if you enter {{{ with out an ending }}}, it'll mess up, but you know what? If we allowed HTML, if you entered <div> and forgot a </div> then you would wind up with the *exact* thing your screen shot it showing!
Further, the purpose of a wiki is not precision publishing, it's quick publishing. Further, the purpose of creole is to publish into many formats. We can take a creole file and publish into HTML, Text, PDF, OpenOffice, LaTeX, LOut, Troff, Groff or one of a hundred different formats all from one source.
Further, creole creates a consistent web site. If you allow 5 people to create HTML, they will all do it differently. One person will do: <div style="font-size: 20pt">Section Header</div>. Another will do <h1>Section Header</h1>, another will do <p><strong>Section Header</strong></p>. Creole solves all of those problems. How? Everyone does == Section Header and creole controls the output.
Creole is the *proper* thing to do, not HTML. A Wiki is the proper thing to do for main Euphoria content, not raw HTML. I do not forsee us ever allowing normal HTML, nor a normal HTML page. Creole will only get better. Allowing the use of HTML will only get worse as more people edit it. Creole is the right thing to do.
Jeremy
15. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1949 views
Is there any support for a better search system for the archives on the RDS site, like i wrote 2(?) years ago?
No, not yet, but the source for the forum is open and I highly encourage contributions! The search engine needs to index a MySQL database and provide free text searches. It also has to not create any index above about 20mb, because that's about all the space we have left on the web host.
In the mean time, in what way do you find the google search ineffective?
It's to allow more people to contribute. It's so you aren't throttled by creole interpreter, where you can use the same template as the rest of the site on your page, or not. Where if you feel the need to provide a flash video on how to install Eu on dosbox, on win95 on a smartphone, or a tutorial on using a gui interface (your app or Judith's IDE), or anything else prohibited on this site.
I answered being "throttled" by creole in a post just a second ago. As for a video, I would encourage uploading it to YouTube, it would get a wide audience there and a link can be provided to it along with textual tutorial on the wiki and forum for that matter (because they both use Creole, you can easily copy/paste). No sense in everyone publishing a movie in their own flash format, YouTube does a great job of standardizing that and making it easy.
As for using the same template... The whole purpose of a template, a wiki, the manual, the forum is to provide consistency. No one will like one doc page being formatted differently than another doc page. One doc page having links at the top, the other on the left side, then yet another with links on the right side. It's very important that all pages on the openeuphoria.org website work/look the same. This is where creole really helps keep consistency and usability of the openeuphoria.org family of web apps.
Jeremy
16. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1970 views
Is there any support for a better search system for the archives on the RDS site, like i wrote 2(?) years ago?
No, not yet, but the source for the forum is open and I highly encourage contributions! The search engine needs to index a MySQL database and provide free text searches. It also has to not create any index above about 20mb, because that's about all the space we have left on the web host.
In the mean time, in what way do you find the google search ineffective?
What google search? http://www.rapideuphoria.com/archive.htm plainly (tho in small print) it's powered by Euphoria.
It's to allow more people to contribute. It's so you aren't throttled by creole interpreter, where you can use the same template as the rest of the site on your page, or not. Where if you feel the need to provide a flash video on how to install Eu on dosbox, on win95 on a smartphone, or a tutorial on using a gui interface (your app or Judith's IDE), or anything else prohibited on this site.
I answered being "throttled" by creole in a post just a second ago. As for a video, I would encourage uploading it to YouTube, it would get a wide audience there and a link can be provided to it along with textual tutorial on the wiki and forum for that matter (because they both use Creole, you can easily copy/paste). No sense in everyone publishing a movie in their own flash format, YouTube does a great job of standardizing that and making it easy.
As for using the same template... The whole purpose of a template, a wiki, the manual, the forum is to provide consistency. No one will like one doc page being formatted differently than another doc page. One doc page having links at the top, the other on the left side, then yet another with links on the right side. It's very important that all pages on the openeuphoria.org website work/look the same. This is where creole really helps keep consistency and usability of the openeuphoria.org family of web apps.
Jeremy
I understand this, for doc pages, but not individual's pages of their pet projects.
useless
17. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1912 views
or anything else prohibited on this site.
Prohibited!? Where did you get that idea? Who said it is prohibited? If you have one of these great video tutorials that is prohibited, please let me know a few things:
- Who told you it was prohibited?
- When did they tell you it was prohibited?
- Where is your tutorial so we can put it in the wiki?
You are making things up and it doesn't help anything. If you are speaking of allowing everyone to go willy nilly and enter any junk HTML they wish, yes, we do prohibit that, we strive for consistency and usability of the website, not to make a mess of everything. Sure, creole has a bug here or there, but we can fix that! Who want's to edit a whole range of HTML mess generated by hundreds of different people? Everyone does it differently, everyone uses a different tool to edit the HTML, etc...
Also, please show me where you are greatly prohibited in expressing yourself in an acceptable manner by creole? What document do you want to post that cannot be done in Creole. I want exact examples, not a hypothetical ghost document.
Jeremy
18. Re: Eu website
- Posted by ryanj Aug 27, 2009
- 1956 views
Hm. I know things like that have happened and it's no reason not to use Creole! Just because it has 1 bug does not mean it's a bad product. I think you are totally missing the point of Creole and the point of a wiki. A wiki is meant to be editable by all people fast. Please read what a Wiki is.
Now, the current bug with Creole (and the forum) is that it does not fully validate the input. So, it allows the mis-use of it's syntax. For instance, if you enter {{{ with out an ending }}}, it'll mess up, but you know what? If we allowed HTML, if you entered <div> and forgot a </div> then you would wind up with the *exact* thing your screen shot it showing!
Further, the purpose of a wiki is not precision publishing, it's quick publishing. Further, the purpose of creole is to publish into many formats. We can take a creole file and publish into HTML, Text, PDF, OpenOffice, LaTeX, LOut, Troff, Groff or one of a hundred different formats all from one source.
Further, creole creates a consistent web site. If you allow 5 people to create HTML, they will all do it differently. One person will do: <div style="font-size: 20pt">Section Header</div>. Another will do <h1>Section Header</h1>, another will do <p><strong>Section Header</strong></p>. Creole solves all of those problems. How? Everyone does == Section Header and creole controls the output.
Creole is the *proper* thing to do, not HTML. A Wiki is the proper thing to do for main Euphoria content, not raw HTML. I do not forsee us ever allowing normal HTML, nor a normal HTML page. Creole will only get better. Allowing the use of HTML will only get worse as more people edit it. Creole is the right thing to do.
Jeremy
Nicely stated, Jeremy. As for the lack of syntax checking, I guess it's just something we will have to live with for now. I'm sure that will be improved when someone has time. I would be happy to help with that in the next few weeks when I start working on the wiki engine.
19. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1905 views
I understand this, for doc pages, but not individual's pages of their pet projects.
If it's for your own pet project then you should put your own web page up, maybe get a SF.net project going for it. Many people have done that. SF.net then provides access to SCM systems, bug reporting systems, and they provide the ability to run your own website where you have total control over it.
Jeremy
20. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1941 views
or anything else prohibited on this site.
Prohibited!? Where did you get that idea? Who said it is prohibited? If you have one of these great video tutorials that is prohibited, please let me know a few things:
- Who told you it was prohibited?
- When did they tell you it was prohibited?
- Where is your tutorial so we can put it in the wiki?
You are making things up and it doesn't help anything. If you are speaking of allowing everyone to go willy nilly and enter any junk HTML they wish, yes, we do prohibit that, we strive for consistency and usability of the website, not to make a mess of everything. Sure, creole has a bug here or there, but we can fix that! Who want's to edit a whole range of HTML mess generated by hundreds of different people? Everyone does it differently, everyone uses a different tool to edit the HTML, etc...
Also, please show me where you are greatly prohibited in expressing yourself in an acceptable manner by creole? What document do you want to post that cannot be done in Creole. I want exact examples, not a hypothetical ghost document.
Jeremy
LOL:
useless
21. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1936 views
Yes, I edited your post to fix the problem. You ended a quote too many times, thus it was the opposite of <div>... no end </div>. In this case it was the equiv of <div>...</div></div>. Thus, you ended the main body's </div> tag, the same as what you would have done if editing HTML and you added 1 too many </div> tags. No different.
Jeremy
22. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1901 views
or anything else prohibited on this site.
Prohibited!? Where did you get that idea? Who said it is prohibited? If you have one of these great video tutorials that is prohibited, please let me know a few things:
- Who told you it was prohibited?
- When did they tell you it was prohibited?
- Where is your tutorial so we can put it in the wiki?
Let me point you to msg 6. Re: Eu website Posted by DerekParnell (admin) of this thread.
You are making things up and it doesn't help anything. If you are speaking of allowing everyone to go willy nilly and enter any junk HTML they wish,
ONLY ON THAT USER'S PAGE, NOT THE DOC PAGES
yes, we do prohibit that, we strive for consistency and usability of the website, not to make a mess of everything. Sure, creole has a bug here or there, but we can fix that! Who want's to edit a whole range of HTML mess generated by hundreds of different people? Everyone does it differently, everyone uses a different tool to edit the HTML, etc...
You aren't to edit the user's pages, unless they are causing site problems.
Also, please show me where you are greatly prohibited in expressing yourself in an acceptable manner by creole?
Well, at the moment, after seeing the page so screwed up it was unreadable after you,me, Ryan posted a few times, as documented in the pics i gave urls to, i am not using the quote tags.
useless
What document do you want to post that cannot be done in Creole. I want exact examples, not a hypothetical ghost document.
Jeremy
23. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1880 views
Also, please show me where you are greatly prohibited in expressing yourself in an acceptable manner by creole?
Well, at the moment, after seeing the page so screwed up it was unreadable after you,me, Ryan posted a few times, as documented in the pics i gave urls to, i am not using the quote tags.
Quote tags are so easy to use! Reading replies where you don't use quote tags just makes a mess. All you have to do is preview your message before hitting the post button.
Jeremy
24. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1875 views
I understand this, for doc pages, but not individual's pages of their pet projects.
If it's for your own pet project then you should put your own web page up, maybe get a SF.net project going for it. Many people have done that. SF.net then provides access to SCM systems, bug reporting systems, and they provide the ability to run your own website where you have total control over it.
Jeremy
For someone starting out, who has a fine little application, i see no harm in offering them a megabyte or two of free hosting on the Euphoria site, demoing how they used Euphoria. And i do not think we should be telling them to get proficient in Creole, and forget html, before they tell anyone how well they used Euphoria. Sounds like shooting one's self in the foot to me.
But sure, for me, i'd just provide a link to my sites where i can use Euphoria, PHP, css, html, and anything else i choose, if the Euphoria space doesn't suit me.
useless
25. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1880 views
For someone starting out, who has a fine little application, i see no harm in offering them a megabyte or two of free hosting on the Euphoria site, demoing how they used Euphoria. And i do not think we should be telling them to get proficient in Creole, and forget html, before they tell anyone how well they used Euphoria. Sounds like shooting one's self in the foot to me.
But sure, for me, i'd just provide a link to my sites where i can use Euphoria, PHP, css, html, and anything else i choose, if the Euphoria space doesn't suit me.
The problem is we are few still. What you are proposing is a huge undertaking. SF.net (what we would have to reproduce) is written by many developers. I'd venture to say they have 10 times the developers we do, that's all they do and they can't even get it right. I think we need to get Euphoria right before we venture into becoming every man's web host. There are many sites that are easy to use that suite that purpose fine.
Very soon, every user is going to be able to submit new news. When they update their product or do something new, they will be able to submit a news article about it and it'll show up on the Home Page along with a link to their project page, wherever that may be.
We have to pick and choose where to spend our developer time. I think the basic website is very important, high up on that list, but providing everyone with a web host I do not. If someone thinks otherwise, that's where the open source model really shines. They can jump in and code that portion of the website. However, one limitation that would prevent that from happening is the fact that we have almost no free space left on openeuphoria.org, especially to start hosting everyone's Euphoria projects. Yes, that's a shame, I know.
Jeremy
26. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1859 views
For someone starting out, who has a fine little application, i see no harm in offering them a megabyte or two of free hosting on the Euphoria site, demoing how they used Euphoria. And i do not think we should be telling them to get proficient in Creole, and forget html, before they tell anyone how well they used Euphoria. Sounds like shooting one's self in the foot to me.
But sure, for me, i'd just provide a link to my sites where i can use Euphoria, PHP, css, html, and anything else i choose, if the Euphoria space doesn't suit me.
The problem is we are few still. What you are proposing is a huge undertaking.
I don't think so. A small php script can recieve a POSTed page from the registered and authorised contributor, and put it in a directory, and update the contrib page's index.html. It's simple overwrite. No hosted editing like the forum. The contributor makes the page work on their own computer, then uploads it. I don't believe zipped packages would be a problem, but clear text would be easier to proof read by script.
SF.net (what we would have to reproduce) is written by many developers. I'd venture to say they have 10 times the developers we do, that's all they do and they can't even get it right. I think we need to get Euphoria right before we venture into becoming every man's web host. There are many sites that are easy to use that suite that purpose fine.
Not a whole hosting company, i am talking a page or two on each project.
Very soon, every user is going to be able to submit new news. When they update their product or do something new, they will be able to submit a news article about it and it'll show up on the Home Page along with a link to their project page, wherever that may be.
We have to pick and choose where to spend our developer time.
I agree. <sigh> I'm playing Solitare.
useless
27. Re: Eu website
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1812 views
Is there any support for a Eu website where a voted group of humans (not a Creole template system) proofs uploaded webpages
No.
Why not?
We're not a web host. It takes a lot of resources to be a web host.
Like Jeremy said, go make your own page elsewhere and we'll link to it.
Are you aware I was *repeatedly* banned from #euphoria, where Tiggr could have provided such services?
I've heard rumors. But so what? It's not like being banned from #euphoria means you're banned from Euphoria. You can set up a web page and host your search service there. Or create search for the OpenEuphoria.org site. I just don't think #euphoria is the final say in matters relating to Euphoria.
Apparently, we will not have that freedom on openeuphoria.org.
Yes, you are limited as to what you can do at OpenEuphoria.org. You are not limited, however, to what you can do with your own web site. So, have at it.
28. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1828 views
Are you aware I was *repeatedly* banned from #euphoria, where Tiggr could have provided such services?
The only reason I am bringing this up is that I want everyone to know that IRC is a great place to hang out, that it's a viable means of talking about Euphoria and that it's not hostile!
Now, just to take away the rumors and get this right... There is an automated bot that exists in #euphoria that prevents channel spamming. It will ban anyone and has banned most of the people who have been in the channel before. The automated bans are time based, and a very short time at that.
The incident that Kat repeatedly refers to is that she has a finiky internet connection and when a storm comes through, her connection is dropped, then re-established, then dropped, then re-established. In the Irc channel, when people were trying to converse, you see messages such as:
[05:59:24] < JohnDoe (n=kvirc@x.x.x) has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.3 Shiny(svn-3155)")
[06:00:45] <rywilly> Hey, what's up everyone?
[06:01:12] <
[06:02:18] <
[06:02:33] <jeremy_c> I'm working on euweb rywilly. Trying to solve some pesky little bugs.
[06:02:58] <rywilly> I want to work again on the wiki. I hope to be able to very soon now!
[06:04:22] <
... etc ...
... etc ...
Now, just to be clear. The above was not the log from Kat's problem that caused her to be banned automatically. It was a while ago and I no longer have the exact text. The above was just an example of what it looks like in the channel.
It's very disruptive and if my client would have been doing that, I would want my client to be banned! It's only common curiosity. The ban lasts for a very short period of time.
Jeremy
29. Re: Eu website
- Posted by unkmar Aug 27, 2009
- 1821 views
I won't bother learning Creole.
A subset of allowed HTML markup would just as easily work. I still don't understand why someone bothered to invent Creole when a subset of trust HTML would work just as easily. <i>Italic</i> No harm there. Or bold or font size within limit or bullet lists. There is a long list of tags that could be allowed.
Yes, I do suggest sanitation. You wouldn't want to allow, <i onload="malicious();">
30. Re: Eu website
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1831 views
I won't bother learning Creole.
A subset of allowed HTML markup would just as easily work. I still don't understand why someone bothered to invent Creole when a subset of trust HTML would work just as easily.
For one thing, I'm sure it's much easier to sanitize creole than html. Here's one answer to why creole (and creole-like things) have been invented:
Why Doesn't Wiki Do Html?
This post by Jeff Atwood has a discussion about which markup language to use for a programming website. The post and the discussion below are interesting:
Is HTML a Humane Markup Language?
Matt
31. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1815 views
I won't bother learning Creole.
A subset of allowed HTML markup would just as easily work. I still don't understand why someone bothered to invent Creole when a subset of trust HTML would work just as easily. <i>Italic</i> No harm there. Or bold or font size within limit or bullet lists. There is a long list of tags that could be allowed.
Yes, I do suggest sanitation. You wouldn't want to allow, <i onload="malicious();">
Unkmar, Creole is much easier, especially for humans to type. For example, enter a link in HTML. Or, create an HTML table, a bullet list, or include an inline image. You can reply to this email and see how easy all of those are to do:
| Header 1 | Header 2 |
|---|---|
| Hi | Bye |
| What? | Don't Know |
Here is a bulleted list:
- Abc
- Def
- They are letters in the alphabet!
And an ordered list
- John Doe
- Jane Doe
- Sally Smith
Jeremy
32. Re: Eu website
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1818 views
I won't bother learning Creole.
That's a shame, especially seeing that you already seem to know how to use it.
A subset of allowed HTML markup would just as easily work. I still don't understand why someone bothered to invent Creole when a subset of trust HTML would work just as easily. <i>Italic</i> No harm there. Or bold or font size within limit or bullet lists. There is a long list of tags that could be allowed.
Yes, I do suggest sanitation. You wouldn't want to allow, <i onload="malicious();">
I'm not dead set against allowing a subset of HTML to be used; some people are just too wedded to the old ways to bother learning new stuff. Ok, this is a reality so let's make some compromises that do not represent a step backwards.
It's it like the goto issue. I will not promote it or support its use in code, but I voted for its inclusion into Euphoria because we should treat coders as adults who are able to bear the consequences of their actions.
What specific subset of HTML would you recommend?
The style sheet has
p
{
line-height: 1.8em;
}
which is the problem. This should be easy to fix up, but what would you prefer as a replacement?
33. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1920 views
Are you aware I was *repeatedly* banned from #euphoria, where Tiggr could have provided such services?
The only reason I am bringing this up is that I want everyone to know that IRC is a great place to hang out, that it's a viable means of talking about Euphoria and that it's not hostile!
Now, just to take away the rumors and get this right... There is an automated bot that exists in #euphoria that prevents channel spamming. It will ban anyone and has banned most of the people who have been in the channel before. The automated bans are time based, and a very short time at that.
The incident that Kat repeatedly refers to is that she has a finiky internet connection and when a storm comes through, her connection is dropped, then re-established, then dropped, then re-established. In the Irc channel, when people were trying to converse, you see messages such as:
[05:59:24] < JohnDoe (n=kvirc@x.x.x) has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.3 Shiny(svn-3155)")
[06:00:45] <rywilly> Hey, what's up everyone?
[06:01:12] <
[06:02:18] <
[06:02:33] <jeremy_c> I'm working on euweb rywilly. Trying to solve some pesky little bugs.
[06:02:58] <rywilly> I want to work again on the wiki. I hope to be able to very soon now!
[06:04:22] <
... etc ...
... etc ...
Now, just to be clear. The above was not the log from Kat's problem that caused her to be banned automatically. It was a while ago and I no longer have the exact text. The above was just an example of what it looks like in the channel.
It's very disruptive and if my client would have been doing that, I would want my client to be banned! It's only common curiosity. The ban lasts for a very short period of time.
Jeremy
And i was told someone in channel, rather that not showing such join msgs in the channel window, asked that i be banned. In other words, the bot didn't do it. Modern irc clients can ignore the join msg sent from the server, or show in any other window besides the channel window. Mirc has had this feature since 1996. Instead, i was refused entry to the channel. It was the 3rd time this has happened, and shows me the tidiness of that someone's channel display, or their laziness in not clicking a setting to avoid showing the join/parts in the channel window, was worth more than me being in the channel.
useless
34. Re: Eu website
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 2183 views
Are you aware I was *repeatedly* banned from #euphoria, where Tiggr could have provided such services?
The incident that Kat repeatedly refers to is that she has a finiky internet connection and when a storm comes through, her connection is dropped, then re-established, then dropped, then re-established. In the Irc channel, when people were trying to converse, you see messages such as:
And i was told someone in channel, rather that not showing such join msgs in the channel window, asked that i be banned. In other words, the bot didn't do it. Modern irc clients can ignore the join msg sent from the server, or show in any other window besides the channel window. Mirc has had this feature since 1996. Instead, i was refused entry to the channel. It was the 3rd time this has happened, and shows me the tidiness of that someone's channel display, or their laziness in not clicking a setting to avoid showing the join/parts in the channel window, was worth more than me being in the channel.
I'm not familiar enough with IRC to have an opinion on the merits of doing that (though it certainly sounds like it would have prevented your ban). However, it sure sounds different when some more facts emerge. It sounds a lot less vindictive with those details. And certainly not the case that someone was trying to censor you (which you seem to be implying in this thread).
This came about in response to Tiggr being able to provide searching for this website. Could it be done within the parameters that Jeremy mentioned? Could it be web based, rather than IRC based?
You already have svn access. I'd suppose the proper place to put it in the repository might be here: /tools/euweb/trunk/source/tiggr, depending on how it could be integrated into the rest of the code (note: I'm not at all familiar with it, so please don't over interpret what I'm saying).
Matt
35. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1897 views
And i was told someone in channel, rather that not showing such join msgs in the channel window, asked that i be banned. In other words, the bot didn't do it. Modern irc clients can ignore the join msg sent from the server, or show in any other window besides the channel window. Mirc has had this feature since 1996. Instead, i was refused entry to the channel. It was the 3rd time this has happened, and shows me the tidiness of that someone's channel display, or their laziness in not clicking a setting to avoid showing the join/parts in the channel window, was worth more than me being in the channel.
I think you are mistaken. BTW, yes, modern clients can do that, but do you want everyone in the channel to have to configure their IRC client to ignore join messages? In addition, I find join messages very helpful, as does most people. How am I to know if someone joined the channel so I can say hello if I ignore join messages?
The correct response is what the IRC bot did, it banned the offending client. What that bot does is a very common practice in any IRC channel. Sure, there are a million other ways of handling it, but none as easy, neat, clean and effective, that's why everyone else does the exact same thing. If you've spent any amount of time on IRC, you've been banned for such actions as these. I've been banned and so have probably everyone else. It's not a bad thing! You just take it that way and you make everyone else think it's bad as well and it's not.
What if my web browser were to goof up and start submitting post after post after post in some sort of weird endless loop and this message shows up every seconds as a new post? Would you want the viewers of this website to configure their proxy to filter it out? Any modern proxy/filter could detect the subject and author and not pass it on to their web browser. That's the same as configuring an IRC client to ignore some action that shouldn't be happening.
Jeremy
36. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1782 views
Kat, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with your last message, it had a ton of quotes going on. It was causing a 500 error. I had to remove it. The good thing is, I have the ex.err as to why it was happening, so I'll submit a bug fix soon.
Do not think that I am censoring you either! If it would have been Matt, Derek, Jim or even my own post, I would have removed it as well.
Jeremy
37. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1742 views
<major snippage occurred>
You already have svn access. I'd suppose the proper place to put it in the repository might be here: /tools/euweb/trunk/source/tiggr, depending on how it could be integrated into the rest of the code (note: I'm not at all familiar with it, so please don't over interpret what I'm saying).
Matt
I do not have svn access to openeuphoria.org. And i didn't suggest it for "this site" anyhow, but rather the RDS-hosted user contributions and archives, which was my interest at the time i wrote the code, not that it would be run on RDS's site, as RobertC has repeatedly said he has that set up as he wants it. This site, openeuphoria.org, and this version of the forum, was not set up yet at the time i wrote that code. At one point i was thinking it could be converted and run stand-alone on openeuphoria.com, as far as i know no one is setting it's memory limits as is done here? Again, for the record, i was not suggesting a split in the "community" between the .com, the .org, and RDS.
The code is incidently written in 100% mirc, because someone at the time was saying my Eu code was "crap" (his word for it). I am unsure how it would merge into the Eu source, but i bet it wouldn't merge well.
Perhaps i misunderstand, Matt, but why would the source for the archive munging and search be in the Eu core source code anyhow?
useless
38. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1723 views
Kat, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with your last message, it had a ton of quotes going on. It was causing a 500 error. I had to remove it. The good thing is, I have the ex.err as to why it was happening, so I'll submit a bug fix soon.
Do not think that I am censoring you either! If it would have been Matt, Derek, Jim or even my own post, I would have removed it as well.
Jeremy
Strangely, it was a suggestion that i have no problems filtering 16 html pages a minute every minute of the month. And i suggested in response to Derek's post about line spacing on unkmar's post, that the , err i better not post it again, so the creole doesn't crash again. But had this forum been in html, i am sure unk and i could have tightly filtered it, fixed the line spacing, and fixed the css spacing on the home page by sometime yesterday, and not bothered you or Derek.
useless
39. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1888 views
Strangely, it was a suggestion that i have no problems filtering 16 html pages a minute every minute of the month. And i suggested in response to Derek's post about line spacing on unkmar's post, that the , err i better not post it again, so the creole doesn't crash again. But had this forum been in html, i am sure unk and i could have tightly filtered it, fixed the line spacing, and fixed the css spacing on the home page by sometime yesterday, and not bothered you or Derek.
Um... The result sent to you is HTML, you can do anything you want with the style sheet on your own end, filter text, etc... No different than if the original source were in HTML.
Jeremy
40. Re: Eu website
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1719 views
<major snippage occurred>
You already have svn access. I'd suppose the proper place to put it in the repository might be here: /tools/euweb/trunk/source/tiggr, depending on how it could be integrated into the rest of the code (note: I'm not at all familiar with it, so please don't over interpret what I'm saying).
I do not have svn access to openeuphoria.org.
In fact, you do. Take a look at /tools/euweb/trunk/source in the euphoria repository.
And i didn't suggest it for "this site" anyhow, but rather the RDS-hosted user contributions and archives, which was my interest at the time i wrote the code, not that it would be run on RDS's site, as RobertC has repeatedly said he has that set up as he wants it. This site, openeuphoria.org, and this version of the forum, was not set up yet at the time i wrote that code. At one point i was thinking it could be converted and run stand-alone on openeuphoria.com, as far as i know no one is setting it's memory limits as is done here? Again, for the record, i was not suggesting a split in the "community" between the .com, the .org, and RDS.
Yeah, I guess I put together your questions about changing this site and about searching.
The code is incidently written in 100% mirc, because someone at the time was saying my Eu code was "crap" (his word for it). I am unsure how it would merge into the Eu source, but i bet it wouldn't merge well.
Well, if it could run as a cgi program, it could be done, but I suspect we probably couldn't do that with mirc (I've never used mirc in any way, so that's just a SWAG on my part).
Perhaps i misunderstand, Matt, but why would the source for the archive munging and search be in the Eu core source code anyhow?
The code for this site is stored in the same repository as the source for euphoria. There are several projects stored there that aren't part of the 'core' of the language implementation. It's a convenient and useful convention.
Matt
41. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1733 views
Strangely, it was a suggestion that i have no problems filtering 16 html pages a minute every minute of the month. And i suggested in response to Derek's post about line spacing on unkmar's post, that the , err i better not post it again, so the creole doesn't crash again. But had this forum been in html, i am sure unk and i could have tightly filtered it, fixed the line spacing, and fixed the css spacing on the home page by sometime yesterday, and not bothered you or Derek.
Um... The result sent to you is HTML, you can do anything you want with the style sheet on your own end, filter text, etc... No different than if the original source were in HTML.
Jeremy
Yes, i agree, i indeed can, but using your arguement about filtering irc, that doesn't fix it for anyone else. I can fix the home page spacing as displayed here, Unk can fix the line spacing as displayed there, Someone Else can fix something else as displayed somewhere else. It doesn't, however, do a whit to improving the look of the website of the language we try to take some pride in.
useless
42. Re: Eu website
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1745 views
Yes, i agree, i indeed can, but using your arguement about filtering irc, that doesn't fix it for anyone else. I can fix the home page spacing as displayed here, Unk can fix the line spacing as displayed there, Someone Else can fix something else as displayed somewhere else. It doesn't, however, do a whit to improving the look of the website of the language we try to take some pride in.
I'm unsure about what you're asking. Are you asking that the css be wide open for public editing on the live site (again, I'm connecting this with other recent posts)? You actually do have the ability to edit the css for the site. Others can obviously view and edit the css locally, then suggest changes to someone with write access. Someone else would have to deploy it, of course. Does this seem unreasonable?
What would the 'ideal' process look like to you. If it includes dumping creole, then it's probably DOA. But I'm honestly asking for what you think the best course of action is right now.
Matt
43. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1769 views
Yes, i agree, i indeed can, but using your arguement about filtering irc, that doesn't fix it for anyone else. I can fix the home page spacing as displayed here, Unk can fix the line spacing as displayed there, Someone Else can fix something else as displayed somewhere else. It doesn't, however, do a whit to improving the look of the website of the language we try to take some pride in.
I'm unsure about what you're asking. Are you asking that the css be wide open for public editing on the live site (again, I'm connecting this with other recent posts)? You actually do have the ability to edit the css for the site. Others can obviously view and edit the css locally, then suggest changes to someone with write access. Someone else would have to deploy it, of course. Does this seem unreasonable?
What would the 'ideal' process look like to you. If it includes dumping creole, then it's probably DOA. But I'm honestly asking for what you think the best course of action is right now.
Matt
(replying below the creole quotes to avoid crashing)
When using the forum's version of editing the main page, there was no option to edit the css. Editing the creole of the main page just made disaster after disaster of it. I was fighting the creole, and it was winning.
Now, if Unk can edit the css line spacing, i think most of his suggestion is solved. If i can edit the css box-text spacing, most of my suggestion is solved. If unk and i (and CK?) can get together and fix the text overlap thing Dan mentioned, while still keeping the same look and feel, i think his mentionables will be taken care of too. But i saw no way to edit the css.
And i am confused when you say i can edit it on the site, but someone else hasto deploy it. If i edit it, and do not commit it, isn't what i wrote all gone byebye? And if i commit it, isn't it deployed?
If you mean how to make the forum more bulletproof against errant (those things that cause server error 500's), well, alias the creole commands with the html people know and luv, and fix the creole parser. Make it test for crash-causing commands before it crashes. I have not studied the parser output vs input, nor it's limits. I didn't know till today that editing the parser in any way was possible. I thought it was pulled off a creole open source site somewhere and installed as-is, like Apache or php. But i mean really, not even testing for matching (those things that cause server error 500's)?!
Before you come down on me for the suggestion of aliasing html to the creole, it's worked out well to not fix words for Tiggr's commands, she accepts a range of words meaning roughly "define". Altho the languages (24 of them) translator is no longer in existance, so she is now english-only. First thing i'd do, if allowed, is fix the idiot (those other things that cause server error 500's), so their position on the line isn't important, make sure they match opening-for-closing or return the poster to the preview page, and alias them with <pre></pre> as someone else suggested.
I don't see any of this as unreasonable.
useless
44. Re: Eu website
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1746 views
(replying below the creole quotes to avoid crashing)
When using the forum's version of editing the main page, there was no option to edit the css. Editing the creole of the main page just made disaster after disaster of it. I was fighting the creole, and it was winning.
Just to set the record straight, the [ quote ] stuff is nothing to do with creole. That is all the forum's doing. Creole knows nothing about quote tags.
Now, if Unk can edit the css line spacing, i think most of his suggestion is solved. If i can edit the css box-text spacing, most of my suggestion is solved. If unk and i (and CK?) can get together and fix the text overlap thing Dan mentioned, while still keeping the same look and feel, i think his mentionables will be taken care of too. But i saw no way to edit the css.
Ok, so you're clear about how to edit the style sheet now?
And i am confused when you say i can edit it on the site, but someone else hasto deploy it. If i edit it, and do not commit it, isn't what i wrote all gone byebye? And if i commit it, isn't it deployed?
One edits it from the SourceForge site. Once your changes are committed, Jeremy can test it and then deploy it to the openeuphoria site.
If you mean how to make the forum more bulletproof against errant (those things that cause server error 500's), well, alias the creole commands with the html people know and luv, and fix the creole parser. Make it test for crash-causing commands before it crashes. I have not studied the parser output vs input, nor it's limits. I didn't know till today that editing the parser in any way was possible. I thought it was pulled off a creole open source site somewhere and installed as-is, like Apache or php. But i mean, really, not even testing for matching (those things that cause server error 500's)?!
Just to repeat, creole is not the problem here. There must be a bug in the forum software regarding quote tags.
I wrote the creole parser and it's stored in the same Sorceforge respository as Euphoria v4, which you have write access to. So, if you see a bug in any of the files there, (log it in the tracker) and have a go at fixing it if you like.
Before you come down on me for the suggestion of aliasing html to the creole, it's worked out well to not fix words for Tiggr's commands, she accepts a range of words meaning roughly "define". Altho the languages (24 of them) translator is no longer in existance, so she is now english-only. First thing i'd do, if allowed, is fix the idiot (those other things that cause server error 500's), so their position on the line isn't important, make sure they match opening-for-closing or return the poster to the preview page, and alias them with <pre></pre> as someone else suggested.
"if allowed"? You already know that you have write access to the source files. What more permission do you need? I can only stress though that if you are considering anything which might be controversial, to discuss it first on the Dev List.
45. Re: Eu website
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1728 views
And i am confused when you say i can edit it on the site, but someone else hasto deploy it. If i edit it, and do not commit it, isn't what i wrote all gone byebye? And if i commit it, isn't it deployed?
I was referring to the svn repository, where you can edit the css and commit the changes. That updates the svn repository, which is separate from the actual live website. Jeremy (or someone else) can then deploy the changes to the site. openeuphoria.org is its own thing...it doesn't serve off of the svn repository.
If you mean how to make the forum more bulletproof against errant (those things that cause server error 500's), well, alias the creole commands with the html people know and luv, and fix the creole parser. Make it test for crash-causing commands before it crashes. I have not studied the parser output vs input, nor it's limits. I didn't know till today that editing the parser in any way was possible. I thought it was pulled off a creole open source site somewhere and installed as-is, like Apache or php. But i mean, really, not even testing for matching (those things that cause server error 500's)?!
My limited experience with CGI tells me that the error 500s mean that the euphoria program generating the web page has crashed.
Before you come down on me for the suggestion of aliasing html to the creole, it's worked out well to not fix words for Tiggr's commands, she accepts a range of words meaning roughly "define". Altho the languages (24 of them) translator is no longer in existance, so she is now english-only. First thing i'd do, if allowed, is fix the idiot (those other things that cause server error 500's), so their position on the line isn't important, make sure they match opening-for-closing or return the poster to the preview page, and alias them with <pre></pre> as someone else suggested.
I don't see any of this as unreasonable.
I can see how that would work nicely for tomething like Tiggr. The problem, as I see it, is that the stuff that people put in ends up being displayed to other people in html. I believe that it's a lot easier to sanitize the creole input to prevent malicious content than if we allow some html. The quoting really isn't that difficult (certainly no more than html tags!).
Though I think that the forum (or whatever component of the software stack is appropriate) should probably be validating that all tags are closed at the end of a post, and if not, then either add the tags to ensure that, or reject the post until the user fixes it.
Matt
46. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1686 views
Though I think that the forum (or whatever component of the software stack is appropriate) should probably be validating that all tags are closed at the end of a post, and if not, then either add the tags to ensure that, or reject the post until the user fixes it.
It will deny the save telling you what is wrong. It's too hard to figure out where the user "thought" a end quote or some other missing tag might have been. Usually, it'd probably just do the wrong thing if we try to get smart about it.
Now, as for sanitizing... It may be a little easier for Creole, but that's not the thing, to me. Who wants to:
- Type <ol><li>List Item One</li></ol> Just to create a list like this? In creole, just use a # !
- Type <table><tr><th>Heading 1</th></tr><tr><td>Data 1</td></tr></table> just to create a table!? Just type || Heading 1 || \n | Data 1 |
- Type <code>filename.txt</code> just to get filename.txt ? Just type ##filename.txt##
Creole is so much better of a human editing language than HTML could ever dream to be. Just because you know HTML does not mean that for the rest of your life it's the best thing to format text. If that were the case, we'd all still be using punch cards to write our programs.
Jeremy
47. Re: Eu website
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1681 views
Though I think that the forum (or whatever component of the software stack is appropriate) should probably be validating that all tags are closed at the end of a post, and if not, then either add the tags to ensure that, or reject the post until the user fixes it.
It will deny the save telling you what is wrong. It's too hard to figure out where the user "thought" a end quote or some other missing tag might have been. Usually, it'd probably just do the wrong thing if we try to get smart about it.
I entered a post with opening, but not closing eucode tags, and it messed up the rest of the page (since deleted). It leaves in open quotes, too.
Matt
48. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 27, 2009
- 1662 views
I entered a post with opening, but not closing eucode tags, and it messed up the rest of the page (since deleted). It leaves in open quotes, too.
Hm, I didn't finish my thought! That's what it should do. It does no validation right now.
Jeremy
49. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 27, 2009
- 1691 views
(replying below the creole quotes to avoid crashing)
When using the forum's version of editing the main page, there was no option to edit the css. Editing the creole of the main page just made disaster after disaster of it. I was fighting the creole, and it was winning.
Just to set the record straight, the [ quote ] stuff is nothing to do with creole. That is all the forum's doing. Creole knows nothing about quote tags.
Now, if Unk can edit the css line spacing, i think most of his suggestion is solved. If i can edit the css box-text spacing, most of my suggestion is solved. If unk and i (and CK?) can get together and fix the text overlap thing Dan mentioned, while still keeping the same look and feel, i think his mentionables will be taken care of too. But i saw no way to edit the css.
Ok, so you're clear about how to edit the style sheet now?
And i am confused when you say i can edit it on the site, but someone else hasto deploy it. If i edit it, and do not commit it, isn't what i wrote all gone byebye? And if i commit it, isn't it deployed?
One edits it from the SourceForge site. Once your changes are committed, Jeremy can test it and then deploy it to the openeuphoria site.
If you mean how to make the forum more bulletproof against errant (those things that cause server error 500's), well, alias the creole commands with the html people know and luv, and fix the creole parser. Make it test for crash-causing commands before it crashes. I have not studied the parser output vs input, nor it's limits. I didn't know till today that editing the parser in any way was possible. I thought it was pulled off a creole open source site somewhere and installed as-is, like Apache or php. But i mean, really, not even testing for matching (those things that cause server error 500's)?!
Just to repeat, creole is not the problem here. There must be a bug in the forum software regarding quote tags.
I wrote the creole parser and it's stored in the same Sorceforge respository as Euphoria v4, which you have write access to. So, if you see a bug in any of the files there, (log it in the tracker) and have a go at fixing it if you like.
Before you come down on me for the suggestion of aliasing html to the creole, it's worked out well to not fix words for Tiggr's commands, she accepts a range of words meaning roughly "define". Altho the languages (24 of them) translator is no longer in existance, so she is now english-only. First thing i'd do, if allowed, is fix the idiot (those other things that cause server error 500's), so their position on the line isn't important, make sure they match opening-for-closing or return the poster to the preview page, and alias them with <pre></pre> as someone else suggested.
"if allowed"? You already know that you have write access to the source files. What more permission do you need? I can only stress though that if you are considering anything which might be controversial, to discuss it first on the Dev List.
No, until now, i did not know the css files for this forum were on the same sourceforge site that i have svn access to. And i didn't know you didn't know: i am not on the email DevList.
useless
50. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1648 views
Derek has made a fix to the forum system and it should not attempt to do the right thing when you are missing an end quote or have an end quote without a begin quote. The change has been deployed.
Jeremy
51. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1588 views
Line spacing has been changed as well.
Jeremy
52. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1607 views
Ha! I keep making minor tweaks. The floatright style has been changed to have a margin on the left of 12px. I'm done for now.
Jeremy
53. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1582 views
Ha! I keep making minor tweaks. The floatright style has been changed to have a margin on the left of 12px. I'm done for now.
Jeremy
Thanks, Jeremy and Derek, Tortoise kept refusing to work last night, and eventually was telling me this and that C lib wasn't initialising, crashing, etc etc, so i couldn't get svn'd to the files.
Why did you set to 12px, when several people suggested 1em? I use em's on http://www.DesignerThinking.com/stereoimages.html and all seems fine, so i was wondering.
And some may notice..........the..........use........of......right........text.......justify........is........spreading.......the........text.............out........a........lot........now.
useless
54. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1537 views
Why did you set to 12px, when several people suggested 1em? I use em's on http://www.DesignerThinking.com/stereoimages.html and all seems fine, so i was wondering.
Habit and also most of the other margins are done by px (not by me). At some point, I'll go through and change all the px's to em's. As long as there is a mixture right now, I didn't see a big need for it and I didn't have the time to change all of them.
And some may notice..........the..........use........of......right........text.......justify........is........spreading.......the........text.............out........a........lot........now.
I hadn't noticed that. Can you give me a URL?
Jeremy
55. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1533 views
Why did you set to 12px, when several people suggested 1em? I use em's on http://www.DesignerThinking.com/stereoimages.html and all seems fine, so i was wondering.
Habit and also most of the other margins are done by px (not by me). At some point, I'll go through and change all the px's to em's. As long as there is a mixture right now, I didn't see a big need for it and I didn't have the time to change all of them.
And some may notice..........the..........use........of......right........text.......justify........is........spreading.......the........text.............out........a........lot........now.
I hadn't noticed that. Can you give me a URL?
Jeremy
Sure:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=716
It was first apparent and distracting on the first line in the pic, so i made it more so in the 3rd line, spreading out "and some may" across the entire line. Right justify works best when the text lines can span the entire screen.
useless
56. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1556 views
I hadn't noticed that. Can you give me a URL?
Sure:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=716
It was first apparent and distracting on the first line in the pic, so i made it more so in the 3rd line, spreading out "and some may" across the entire line. Right justify works best when the text lines can span the entire screen.
Um, in a legitimate post. No one makes one word that is 177 characters long, at least in normal conversation.
Jeremy
57. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1519 views
I hadn't noticed that. Can you give me a URL?
Sure:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=716
It was first apparent and distracting on the first line in the pic, so i made it more so in the 3rd line, spreading out "and some may" across the entire line. Right justify works best when the text lines can span the entire screen.
Um, in a legitimate post. No one makes one word that is 177 characters long, at least in normal conversation.
Jeremy
Sure:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=716
It was first apparent and distracting on the first line in the pic.
useless
58. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1548 views
Sure:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=716
It was first apparent and distracting on the first line in the pic.
Until it becomes more of a problem than that, I'm apt to leave it as in many, many cases it makes for a more easily readable document.
Jeremy
59. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jaygade Aug 28, 2009
- 1482 views
Some URLs might be longer than 177 chars.
Just sayin'. I don't otherwise know all that much about the finer points of CSS.
60. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1523 views
Some URLs might be longer than 177 chars.
Just sayin'. I don't otherwise know all that much about the finer points of CSS.
It may not take an url to mess this up:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=718
useless
61. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1558 views
It may not take an url to mess this up:
What did you do to cause that to happen? That is wrapped in a pre tag and your web browser should not be trying to do any word wrapping on it at all. I can resize my web browser to be about any size and don't have that problem.
Are you stripping <pre> tags through some type of filter?
Jeremy
62. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1527 views
It may not take an url to mess this up:
What did you do to cause that to happen? That is wrapped in a pre tag and your web browser should not be trying to do any word wrapping on it at all. I can resize my web browser to be about any size and don't have that problem.
Are you stripping <pre> tags through some type of filter?
Jeremy
No. In fact, i am using IE to read euforum specifically because it does NOT go thru any http text proxy.
useless
63. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1548 views
No. In fact, i am using IE to read euforum specifically because it does NOT go thru any http text proxy.
I just tried in IE, with out issue as well.
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=719
Jeremy
64. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1508 views
No. In fact, i am using IE to read euforum specifically because it does NOT go thru any http text proxy.
I just tried in IE, with out issue as well.
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=719
Jeremy
I see no <pre></pre> tags in the page source code:
http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=722
useless
65. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1515 views
I see no <pre></pre> tags in the page source code:
That isn't the area you posted before. There are no pre tags, nor are there suppose to be there. Before we were talking about the line of code that was wrapping!
Jeremy
66. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1463 views
I see no <pre></pre> tags in the page source code:
That isn't the area you posted before. There are no pre tags, nor are there suppose to be there. Before we were talking about the line of code that was wrapping!
Jeremy
No, we were not.
We were talking about the word spacing on a line. In http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=718 , look where the "+r" is as the first parameter after "attrib". That is what i was talking about. The way out word spacing.
useless
67. Re: Eu website
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1475 views
No, we were not.
We were talking about the word spacing on a line. In http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=718 , look where the "+r" is as the first parameter after "attrib". That is what i was talking about. The way out word spacing.
And I said that that exact line is inside of a pre tag, which it is! And then you showed me a different line that was not inside of a pre tag. We were not talking about word spacing, we were talking about missing pre tags.
That image, image 718 should not be wrapping like that because it should be inside of a pre tag. You then gave me another image, image 722 and said you saw no pre tag. 722 shouldn't have a pre tag. I said that your image 718 is acting like you have a proxy stripping pre tags. You said you did not and then showed me 722 with no pre tags. Please look at the source that produced 718 and tell me if it has a pre tag. Let's solve 718 first.
Jeremy
68. Re: Eu website
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 28, 2009
- 1443 views
Kiddies, the problem is probably this style sheet entry ...
#main_inner p
{
text-align: justify;
margin-bottom: 2.0em;
}
The text-align could be removed, I suspect.
69. Re: Eu website
- Posted by useless Aug 28, 2009
- 1457 views
No, we were not.
We were talking about the word spacing on a line. In http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=718 , look where the "+r" is as the first parameter after "attrib". That is what i was talking about. The way out word spacing.
And I said that that exact line is inside of a pre tag, which it is! And then you showed me a different line that was not inside of a pre tag. We were not talking about word spacing, we were talking about missing pre tags.
That image, image 718 should not be wrapping like that because it should be inside of a pre tag. You then gave me another image, image 722 and said you saw no pre tag. 722 shouldn't have a pre tag. I said that your image 718 is acting like you have a proxy stripping pre tags. You said you did not and then showed me 722 with no pre tags. Please look at the source that produced 718 and tell me if it has a pre tag. Let's solve 718 first.
Jeremy
Ok, http://openeuphoria.org/forum/108346.wc shows 718 is in a <pre tag, and it's not mangled like in 718. Umm, it's possible i got the screen shot from the preview screen, before hitting "post".
useless
