Euphoria
Ticket #582:
Distribute an Editor other than ed.ex with Euphoria
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Reported by
Shian_Lee
Jan 02, 2011
You've created an amazing programming language. Years of hard work. Unique concept. I couldn't think about something better then atom and sequence. Honestly. And now version 4 looks amazing too.
Imagine telling someone to polish a diamond with a sand paper! This is exactly the situation with Euphoria (and other languages).
The only way to enjoy, be productive, learn and get better in programming - is by using some kind of tool: the Editor.
Now, ED.EX is not more then a demo program! this is the truth.
The other 1,000,000 editors out there are nothing but a sand paper - they totally destroy the beauty of this language, Euphoria.
The "modern" concept of a language without an editor is harmful. A good Editor must be part of a language, because this is the main tool that makes the language productive, fun and easy to use. The Editor actually integrates the main aspects of a language into a productive environment (editing, sensitive help, run, debug, tools, etc).
Euphoria without a real editor - is a diamond in a swamp.
When a user downloads Euphoria - The *first* thing he's looking for: is the editor. But unfortunately, it's the *last* thing he will get - There is no formal editor at all, to make his life simple.
Creating a REAL editor is a professional hard work. But a good editor is better then 1000 tutorials. A good editor, with massive sensitive help is better then million demos.
If you worked so hard to create such a beautiful programming language, work even harder to create the right tool to use it.
Shian.
Details
1. Comment by jeremy
Jun 07, 2012
Is this something we really wish to do? An editor would be more code than euphoria, I'd suppose and there are so many out there. We did create the editors scm repo which provides euphoria syntax modes for many editors and documented it on the wiki. I think that this is a better option than creating an editor.
Anyone care if I mark this one as invalid?
2. Comment by Shian_Lee
Nov 08, 2014
The BASIC language is famous and used until today, mainly because of QuickBasic 4.5 IDE and QBASIC interpreter. The simple and friendly IDE attracted so many beginners in programming, and that's what made the *language* famous.
Now, Euphoria is million times better then BASIC or any other high level language. Euphoria is simply the best language.
What we need is another link, next to "Download a single installation file, and you're all set!"; This link will allow any beginner to download and install a pack of ready-to-use configuration files for the most FRIENDLY editors such as Geany on Linux, etc.
In this way - a new programmer/beginner will be 'all set!' indeed!
All I want is to allow more beginners to enjoy this best language... Just put your self in the place of someone who hardly understand what's the difference between INPUT and OUTPUT - and there are many that don't have a clue about it, but wish to learn. The free and friendly QBASIC IDE is why BASIC became known to many, till today.
3. Comment by SDPringle
Nov 08, 2014
Perhaps those who are really interested in a EUPHORIA custom editor can write one and upload it to the Euphoria archive.
4. Comment by Shian_Lee
Nov 08, 2014
Anyone who want to learn programming would be really interested in a EUPHORIA custom editor.
I think that one of the main reasons that Euphoria is quite unknown, is the lack of such a custom editor - NOT the quality of the language.
These days new programmers talking about "Visual Studio", etc; They don't even mention the name of the language; they just mention the name of the tool; i.e. "Visual studio is the easiest"...
I worked with machines for a while, and I've realized that Human-Engineering is not a joke. IDE is all about Human-Engineering.
Human-Engineering is an essential part of any technology. Human-Engineering helps to promote new technologies, to use new technologies, to get used to new technologies, and to immigrate to new technologies.
People choose products based on their Human-Engineering - not their quality. People choose "Visual Studio" because of its Human-Engineering; although Euphoria is a much better language - much more powerful and much more easy and fun to use.
Many new programmers avoiding Euphoria because of this.
It's certainly worth the time and effort to supply a simple and friendly IDE, with accessible and easy to use help system, and to bundle it with the language. It will help to promote Euphoria. ED is simply too hard for new programmers, and even Geany editor, without proper and bundled configuration cannot be considered attractive.
Please understand the importance of Human-Engineering in technology: it's starts with the simplicity of "if...then", continuing with syntax coloring, and ends with an IDE.
Should be an updated version of ED.EX, with friendly menu, useful tools, easy-to-use help system, and friendly GUI design. someone has to do it and bundle it with the language.
Thank you.
5. Comment by SDPringle
Nov 08, 2014
This is possible to do with the support added for external debuggers in 4.0. Honestly, is there someone who wants to do this, though?
6. Comment by Shian_Lee
Nov 09, 2014
I don't see what's wrong with the current debugging system in Euphoria 4 or 3. Euphoria interpreter, together with trace() and user defined types are suffice and powerful. The debugger is also easy to use. Maybe you're talking about another way to implement it?
New programmers are the future of Euphoria. A new programmer don't need "Visual Studio". New programmer simply needs a ready-to-use IDE, which packs all the obvious needs of a programmer, which are: standard and friendly editor, useful tools for the language, and efficient help system.
When such IDE is available to a new programmer, as soon as he/she downloads the language - the language itself will promote itself.
There is no need to go far. A simple editor will do the job, since the Euphoria language itself already has an excellent Human-Engineering.
Honestly - I would love to create the editor, using the Euphoria language itself, of course. But most of us are volunteers and sometimes it's hard or impossible to find the time. I was thinking also about configuring an existing free editor as Geany for this purpose.
I just want to say that Euphoria 3.1.1 didn't die because of its quality... I prefer to write scripts in Euphoria 3 then in any other language such as python, bash, or whatever. I would even write the communication protocols if I have to. Since the overall quality of Euphoria 3 is much higher then other languages, in my opinion. Euphoria is a *truly* rapid and powerful language -
Euphoria 3 had to face the same problem that Linux OS had: Linux was used by professionals for a long time, until the developers felt that they want to share this great OS with the "simple people"; then they started to work harder for creating a friendly desktop environment. Same thing happened to Euphoria 3: it was an excellent language - but mainly for professionals which are writing C code fluently. That's absurd!
Now Euphoria 4 needs to reach the "simple people", i.e. new programmers, and beside being a well designed language it should also have a "desktop".
No matter how good is Euphoria - it must supply a "desktop" (IDE) for the new programmers. If not, it might truly die - the same way Linux could die; i.e. to be a bonus-language for C programmers. Which again: IT IS ABSURD.
Please just think about it.
7. Comment by andi49
Nov 09, 2014
3. Comment by SDPringle 1 day ago
Perhaps those who are really interested in a EUPHORIA custom editor can write one and upload it to the Euphoria archive.
The problem is:
Those who need a custom Editor normaly do not have the abilities to write a custom Editor.
Those who has the abilities to write an Editor do not care about writing the Editor (they allready have an Editor)
Andreas
8. Comment by DerekParnell
Nov 11, 2014
Writing a text editor is really, really tough. I've written a few in my time. The main problem is trying to balance being flexible, comprehensive, responsive, user-friendly, etc, etc, etc... I've learned that one cannot write a text editor that the majority of people will prefer over the rest out there. Editors are a very personal choice, like footwear.
However, saying that, I would like to develop a base text editor library. One that has enough functionality to allow someone to write an actual text editor. The library would not contain any (yes any) user interface functionality - no display or keyboard/mouse/stylus/voice/etc input. It would just focus on the manipulation of text, file I/O and management, cursor management, buffer management, view management, etc.
Does anyone else think this is a useful pursuit?
9. Comment by Shian_Lee
Nov 11, 2014
answer to 8. Comment by DerekParnell Nov 11, 2014 04:21:50
"...However, saying that, I would like to develop a base text editor library. One that has enough functionality to allow someone to write an actual text editor. The library would not contain any (yes any) user interface functionality - no display or keyboard/mouse/stylus/voice/etc input. It would just focus on the manipulation of text, file I/O and management, cursor management, buffer management, view management, etc.
Does anyone else think this is a useful pursuit?"
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In case that this library is a solid-cross-platform-layer, for being a base for the next layers, which are the text mode or graphics mode UI, and the tools - then Euphoria might be able to offer a simple and attractive environment for new users - as well as for experienced users.
IDE is a work for few people. If each programmer will add a single layer, well documented, then a new Euphoria IDE will be born. But someone must start.
Yes, I think that this is a useful pursuit.
GitHub