1. Wee: standard installation

For the upcoming o[ 4.1

  • I am assuming that Pete's Wee editor will be included.
  • I am also assuming that Irv's EuGTK library will be included.

This suggests the following layout:

| 
|__ euphoria 
    | 
    |__ bin  
    |     eui           
    |     euc            
    |     eubind         
    |     eushroud       
    |     wee           -- NEW editor 
    | 
    |__ include  
    |   |__ std          
    |   |__ euphoria     
    |   |__ EuGTK       -- NEW Irv's library 
    |   |__ wee         -- NEW Pete's editor includes 
    |   |__ scintilla   -- NEW      
    | 
    |__ docs            -- NEW docs will contain WEE documentation 
    |                   -- NEW docs will contain EuGTK documentation 
    | 
    |__ demo           
    |   |__ tutorial 
    |   |__ win32     
    |   |__ unix      
    |   |__ langwar    
    |   |__ bench    
    |   |__ gtk        -- NEW Irv's demos 
    | 
    |__ source         
    | 
    |__ tests             

The question for Irv and Pete is, what will the future really look like?

_tom

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2. Re: Wee: standard installation

_tom said...

For the upcoming o[ 4.1

  • I am assuming that Pete's Wee editor will be included.
  • I am also assuming that Irv's EuGTK library will be included.

Can you recap the discussions we had about this, possibly link to older threads? I have a vague memory about this but I don't recall formally adopting a GUI library, just the editor.

I'm all for this, BTW, just think we should give people to chime in and maybe hold a formal vote if anyone disagrees with the idea.

_tom said...

This suggests the following layout:

Looks fine to me.

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3. Re: Wee: standard installation

_tom said...

For the upcoming o[ 4.1

  • I am assuming that Pete's Wee editor will be included.
  • I am also assuming that Irv's EuGTK library will be included.

WEE - maybe.

EuGTK - no. Not because it isn't worthy, but because it isn't alone. We would need a significant discussion if we're going to include a GUI toolkit with the default installation of Euphoria.

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4. Re: Wee: standard installation

So far I think we some implied agreement about Wee becoming the official editor. Lots of enthusiasm and non-stop improvements from Pete have helped make Wee look official.

Wee has dependencies:

  • Scintilla on windows is 2.1MB, on unix 1.4MB
  • EuGTK is 0.34MB

Even if Wee is compiled there will be a need for Scintilla dll or so libraries. A standard location for them is needed.

When o[ was reviewed by Linux Format it was noted that the ed.ex editor was dated.

Including EuGTK is natural for a Linux user; I don't know about Windows users.

My vote is for Wee. And, encouragement for Pete and Irv who are doing all the work and have to figure out how to package things.

_tom

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5. Re: Wee: standard installation

euphoric said...

WEE - maybe.

EuGTK - no. Not because it isn't worthy, but because it isn't alone. We would need a significant discussion if we're going to include a GUI toolkit with the default installation of Euphoria.

How about a "bonus download" that includes Wee and EuGTK?

This way I have a starting point for Euphoria tutorials and everyone is free to choose their favorites.

_tom

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6. Re: Wee: standard installation

_tom said...
euphoric said...

WEE - maybe.

EuGTK - no. Not because it isn't worthy, but because it isn't alone. We would need a significant discussion if we're going to include a GUI toolkit with the default installation of Euphoria.

How about a "bonus download" that includes Wee and EuGTK?

This way I have a starting point for Euphoria tutorials and everyone is free to choose their favorites.

_tom

I agree having Wee included in the next update of Euphoria would be great. I also wouldn't mind if EuGTK was included as well, even though I am Windows user. However, maybe as _tom said, having a bonus download for Wee and EuGTK would be a good option.

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7. Re: Wee: standard installation

I may have sounded negative about a great editor for Euphoria before but it was more about whether you can find developers who can and will finish it. I still use jEdit. jEdit is written in Java. Java comes with a GUI framework. I don't use edx. Edx is written in EUPHORIA. EUPHORIA doesn't come with a GUI framework. Edx is a step up from EDLIN for DOS but many steps down from any thing out there today.

I discussed with the admins years ago and they were against including a GUI package with Euphoria. Perhaps they might have a change of heart now that Wee provides a functional editor. Alternatively, you might as well include the dependencies with Wee and put Wee in an installer. Grab packaging/* for examples of how you can create packages for various OSes and distros and start from there.

Shawn Pringle

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8. Re: Wee: standard installation

_tom said...

How about a "bonus download" that includes Wee and EuGTK?

Sounds great!

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9. Re: Wee: standard installation

Another lightweight option might be to distribute only the Wee updater.ex, and a note describing the editor and how to run updater.ex, which will download the files required for running the editor. Perhaps also explain how to bind or translate the editor for ease of use.

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10. Re: Wee: standard installation

PeteE said...

Another lightweight option might be to distribute only the Wee updater.ex, and a note describing the editor and how to run updater.ex, which will download the files required for running the editor. Perhaps also explain how to bind or translate the editor for ease of use.

"lightweight option", I miss having Euphoria fit on a floppy disk!

The updater.ex solves the problem of having extra stuff in the default installation.

Can you customize the Wee paths so it just fits into an installation as if it were always there?

Installation forms are:

  • windows
  • linux (that has a windows file structure)
  • linux (that has a unix file structure)
  • osx
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11. Re: Wee: standard installation

Please make wee/EuGTK part of Euphoria's standard installation, or, at the very least, a highly recommended option.

Thanks again to Irv and Pete for their fantastic contributions supporting Euphoria! smile

Regards, Ken

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12. Re: Wee: standard installation

PeteE said...

Another lightweight option might be to distribute only the Wee updater.ex, and a note describing the editor and how to run updater.ex, which will download the files required for running the editor. Perhaps also explain how to bind or translate the editor for ease of use.

To me this makes the most sense ... maybe the same with EUGTK (as a separate 'bonus' download)???

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13. Re: Wee: standard installation

Having followed suggestions here, I downloaded Lazarus - 160 megs + apt-get install gtk2-dev and support, maybe another 30megs
I downloaded LiveCode - 150 megs. without the Android libraries

They don't seem too worried about the size of the download.

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14. Re: Wee: standard installation

Being willing to include Wee but not the include file it needs seems a bit weird.

It isn't going to matter. As long as you keep it available for those who need it, what is the benefit to including this with the distribution? If the admins agreed with me, sockets, regex, and http would not be included in the core c files. The minute you include it with the interpreter, they will talk about adding it to the backend. I know them. ;)

Shawn Pringle


Forked into: Shawn and Backend inclusion

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15. Re: Wee: standard installation

SDPringle said...

Being willing to include Wee but not the include file it needs seems a bit weird.

It isn't going to matter. As long as you keep it available for those who need it, what is the benefit to including this with the distribution?

Shawn Pringle

The benefit, it seems to me, would be to avoid reviews which make fun of Euphoria's 1980-style editor. And in addition, to make getting started easier for people who are trying Eu for the first time. Wee is a good, fairly complex, app built with Euphoria, and it's intuitive to use. IOW, it works just like other programs they may have used. It should work 'right out of the box' for people who have never used Eu, without the hassle of downloading anything else, and without having to set up directories, etc.

This would at least give the impression that we know what we are doing :)

If Wee is going to be included as a part of the Eu download, it would probably be a good idea to comment and document the code a bit more, so people could use it as an example.

Edit: and, let's face it - there's never going to be another Eu-specific editor, or any real support from any of the other existing editors. Wee is fine as it is, and - here's a hint - it's one we can modify/enhance/fix ourselves.

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16. Re: Wee: standard installation

irv said...
SDPringle said...

Being willing to include Wee but not the include file it needs seems a bit weird.

It isn't going to matter. As long as you keep it available for those who need it, what is the benefit to including this with the distribution?

Shawn Pringle

The benefit, it seems to me, would be to avoid reviews which make fun of Euphoria's 1980-style editor. And in addition, to make getting started easier for people who are trying Eu for the first time. Wee is a good, fairly complex, app built with Euphoria, and it's intuitive to use. IOW, it works just like other programs they may have used. It should work 'right out of the box' for people who have never used Eu, without the hassle of downloading anything else, and without having to set up directories, etc.

This would at least give the impression that we know what we are doing :)

If Wee is going to be included as a part of the Eu download, it would probably be a good idea to comment and document the code a bit more, so people could use it as an example.

Edit: and, let's face it - there's never going to be another Eu-specific editor, or any real support from any of the other existing editors. Wee is fine as it is, and - here's a hint - it's one we can modify/enhance/fix ourselves.

I think Irv is right on.

I might add that Wee's hotkeys for context sensitive help, view subroutines, declarations, arguments, completions, goto error make it a wonderful learning tool for the Euphoria newbie.

~

Comments about Wee menu preferences:

I think the current "View" menu should be named "Help" with the F1 hotkey option listed first as "Euphoria Keyword/subroutine help - if there is not a Euphoria manual "article" for the current word, then the view subroutine declaration routine could be automatically called.

The current "Help" menu could be named "About" and contain the two items listed in the current Help menu, namel "About and "Tutorial" - these options are about the Wee editor, whereas the new Help menu would be Help regarding language/code features.

A new "View" menu could contain a "View Demos" option to select any of the platform appropriate programs from the demo folder to load into the editor, a "View Manual" selection to view the local index.html file, and perhaps a "View Euphoria Online Forum" option as well.

A new "Tools" menu could contain the "Bind", "Shroud", and "Translate" options listed currently in the "Run" menu, but with links to the appropriate html manual articles - and options for "with arguments" and "set arguments".

Sorry I got carried away!

As Irv mentioned, Wee is so fine as it is now that even I can make most of the modifications which I have suggested above. Pete has put Irv's EuGTK "tool kit" to good use - and, as far as I can tell, he has done an excellent job of providing Windows support as well.

Thanks again to Pete and Irv!

Regards, Ken

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17. Re: Wee: standard installation

K_D_R said...

... Wee is so fine as it is now that even I can make most of the modifications which I have suggested above.

I have made one modification to my copy of Wee that is great. I added some code to sniff out which terminal program(s) I have available (not a problem with Windows, there's only one), and a menu checkbox to "run in terminal".

So, I can now write text-based Eu programs with Wee, and when I hit F5, a terminal opens with the program running. Very convenient. Just like the old DOS days, but better :)

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18. Re: Wee: standard installation

irv said...

I have made one modification to my copy of Wee that is great. I added some code to sniff out which terminal program(s) I have available (not a problem with Windows, there's only one), and a menu checkbox to "run in terminal".

So, I can now write text-based Eu programs with Wee, and when I hit F5, a terminal opens with the program running. Very convenient. Just like the old DOS days, but better :)

Neat!

I would love to see/have the code for that mod! smile

Regards, Ken

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19. Re: Wee: standard installation

I have posted an updated ui_gtk.e and accompanying icon include file to http://sites.google.com/site/euphoriagtk/Home

This implements the choice of interpreter and terminal to use, as well as cleaning up some of my messy code. Should just drop in in place of the existing ui_gtk.e. Let me know if there are any problems.

I didn't even attempt to add the same features to the Windows version (sorry). I am sure I would mess things up there. Someone with more Windows experience will need to do that.

I think this shows how well Pete separated the interface(s) from the rest of the editor code, so that I could add things without needing to mess with stuff that I don't have any business messing with :) It's a good lesson for other cross-platform apps.

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20. Re: Wee: standard installation

irv said...

I have posted an updated ui_gtk.e and accompanying icon include file to http://sites.google.com/site/euphoriagtk/Home

This implements the choice of interpreter and terminal to use, as well as cleaning up some of my messy code. Should just drop in in place of the existing ui_gtk.e. Let me know if there are any problems.

I didn't even attempt to add the same features to the Windows version (sorry). I am sure I would mess things up there. Someone with more Windows experience will need to do that.

I think this shows how well Pete separated the interface(s) from the rest of the editor code, so that I could add things without needing to mess with stuff that I don't have any business messing with :) It's a good lesson for other cross-platform apps.

Really Neat, Irv!

Many Thanks, Ken

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21. Re: Wee: standard installation

I did an update this a.m., I forgot to remove a previously-bound/shrouded program before binding/shrouding again. That meant that if there was some kind of failure to write a new bound file, the old one would be run when you click on the "would you like to test it now?" dialog.

Not exactly a critical error, but you might want to update sometime.

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